AI with a Human Touch: Empowering Leaders to Lead with Authenticity

Brandi Starr [00:00:36]:
Welcome to another episode of Revenue Rehab. I am your host, Brandy Star and we have another amazing episode for you today. I am joined by Mona Bavar. Mona is the founder of BlueApples.ai and DLISH, where she bridges technology, creativity and human connection. At Blue Apples, she helps entrepreneurs integrate AI as a collaborative partner to amplify creativity and streamline operations while staying true to their unique vision. Mona has also explored the power of archetypes, guiding individuals and businesses to align their strategies with deeper purpose driven narratives. Her work challenges the conventional approaches to success, blending innovation and humanity to inspire growth that feels authentic and meaningful. Mona, welcome to Revenue Rehab.

Brandi Starr [00:01:32]:
Your session begins now.

Mona Bavar [00:01:35]:
Hi Brandi. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to explore our world.

Brandi Starr [00:01:40]:
Yes, I am excited to talk to you. But before we dive into our topic today, I like to break the ice with a little woosa moments that I call buzzword banishment. So tell me, what brings you or what industry buzzword would you like to banish forever?

Mona Bavar [00:02:00]:
Industry buzzword. I would. Maybe it's not an industry buzzword, but I would definitely like to banish the word passion.

Brandi Starr [00:02:06]:
Ah, passion. Why do you dislike that one?

Mona Bavar [00:02:10]:
Because I think it's misused most of the time and overused a lot of the time.

Brandi Starr [00:02:18]:
Okay, I can take that. I. I definitely will say that lots of people will call the most random things passion projects or I've got a passion for this and there isn't that emotional connection to whatever it is. So I can say, at least for this conversation, we will banish the word passion and we will put it in the box, throw it away. So now that we've gotten that off our chest, tell me what brings you to Revenue Rehab today.

Mona Bavar [00:02:53]:
I'm really excited to be here today to share with you something that's fairly new in my life. And it's not, it's the AI world. But what I've done with AI that I'm very proud of. And it's taken a lot a journey, a life span journey to bring in the archetypes. And what I mean by archetypes are the Carl Jung, let's say Personas and the archetypes that he spoke about when it came to psychology and psychoanalysis, but to put them in the Business world and apply them to leaders. Using the power of AI is something that I think we've nailed and I'm very excited to share with everyone how it can benefit.

Brandi Starr [00:03:37]:
Okay, I've got lots of questions, but first, I believe in setting intentions. It gives us focus, it gives us purpose, and most important, it gives our audience an understanding of what they should expect from our discussion. So what's your best hope? What would you like people to take away from the conversation?

Mona Bavar [00:03:56]:
That stepping into our power and embracing all our different Personas is all about having fun. So the journey of a leader, an entrepreneur, anybody who is anybody, it's all about having fun and exploring it. And. And I have to say, I, at my age of 53, I was never that person. I was always in this, like, get things done, meet the goals, do what you have to do. But today it's all about letting go and just having fun. Because, I mean, may as well, right?

Brandi Starr [00:04:33]:
So true in so many ways. And so as we get started, you talked about the Carl Jung archetypes, and I know that's not necessarily something that everyone is familiar with, so that we can kind of level set. Can you help to explain that and what those are?

Mona Bavar [00:04:54]:
Absolutely. So Carl Jung, which he was a psychologist during he was worked with Freud and then he went on to do his own thing. But one thing he developed, that he went deep. So he believed that psychology was more than mental, that there was something innate, something spiritual, if you will, that he liked to tap into. And he said, when we are, from the time that we are born, we're exposed to these archetypes. And you have to know that archetypes have been around since the beginning of time because they're just what we give names to that we want to associate with, whether it's through symbolism or through gods that have been created in mythology. But what he did is he said, okay, when you're born, you're exposed to usually two archetypes which are the parents. So the first archetype you come in touch with is the caretaker.

Mona Bavar [00:05:48]:
Then as you grow, you go into these other archetypes, which can be. Then you go to school and you get exposed to the hero, for example, or the teacher that then becomes your sage archetype or the creator, because you see a friend that's drawing or. And as you go through life, you have these different archetypes that are. You're exposed to and they become a part of your identity. Then we all go through this period of our lives where I like to call our mini midlife crisis where you say, what am I doing? Who am I? What am I? This existential space where we're trying to understand ourselves. And that is where we have to tap into all the archetypes, see which ones no longer resonate with us. Because the caretaker were our parents, right? Or the hero was that school friend that we had or the teacher that we had. But who are we? And so it's about exploring ourselves and then saying, my true archetype, I'm comfortable with all of them.

Mona Bavar [00:06:56]:
But my true archetype, for example, is the creator, is the visionary, is the intuitive business mind leader. But one thing that Carl Jung did is he used the tarot, the tarot major arcana deck to associate these with all of them. And so what we did is at my agency, AI agency, we put together this guide around the archetypes and entrepreneurs to help leaders tap into their archetypes using AI really, really tried and tested prompts. And every month you're exposed to a different archetype which then makes you go into this self reflective, personal journey using AI to help you go a little bit deeper. And then you have all these other like reflective questions or exercises that you do. And then the objective is to walk away at the end of the 12 months having been exposed to all 12 different kinds, but then understanding, you know what, this one resonates with me the most. Even if I am comfortable with all 12 of them, I'm going to now pull this one up and I'm going to shine like that. The archetype of the creative or the visionary or the, the emperor, which is the, the strategist.

Brandi Starr [00:08:17]:
Very interesting. Now I know that. So understanding the archetypes and I know that you have a connection in terms of how this helps to drive meaningful revenue growth and makes a brand truly stand out. So help to connect the work that Carl Young has done and the archetypes and the self discovery to how this impacts those that are leading the various revenue teams.

Mona Bavar [00:08:47]:
That's a beautiful question because you would normally not think that any of this has anything to do with each other, right? But the reality is that to be an effective leader, you have to be empathetic. And what does that mean? That means you have to be able to understand the people that you're leading. And in order to do that, you have to understand yourself. So you have to be able to say confidently, this is who I am. I'm okay to be vulnerable, I'm okay to expose myself to you. I'm not ashamed of any of it. And this way, you will resonate with me and then you will trust me to follow me as a leader. So as leaders, as CEOs, as entrepreneurs, as anyone that is any in any position where they have to guide someone, we always say, I don't have the confidence or I.

Mona Bavar [00:09:39]:
It's all about what I see. So do my numbers add up? Did I meet my forecast? Am I scaling? Am I delivering? Am I meeting the shareholders that their demands and all of those things are play outside of us and they're all supposed to be there. But if we step back and say, you know what, to be an effective and really a successful leader, it's about the personal journey as well. So you, I am sure being a cmo, you understand how important it is for you to know who you are in order for them, you to be able to communicate the brand. Because today, and what we've noticed with the AI agency is that content creation has become so easy and that is not a good thing necessarily. Right? Unless you know your story, how are you going to know your brand story and stand out amongst 4 billion to 6 billion content that is out there? If your brand voice is not identified, how do you identify that? It's not like you can sit in front of ChatGPT and say, you know what, tell me what my brand voice is. That's something that you have to do for yourself. So you have to say, this is what I am, this is who I am.

Mona Bavar [00:10:57]:
And there you go into tap into these archetypes and it's this journey, step by step, where then you hone your assets, let's say, and then you say, okay, I'm going to feed it to the AI. It expedites it. I don't sound like everybody else out there. I'm perfectly clear on who I am and what my brand is all about. And therefore you connect with the audience. Connecting with the audience means they trust you, they resonate with you, they like to be a part of your community and then they're going to buy from you, so then your revenues are going to grow. So it's all these steps that you have to take behind the scenes in order to then have the, let's say, the window display.

Brandi Starr [00:11:45]:
Okay. And what's really interesting to me here is you started by talking a bit about that personal, like, what archetype are you as an individual? And I think you hit on a really key component of why that matters. And I think that ties to number one in choosing the right roles for you. There's going to be some roles that based on that archetype that you show up as that are going to feel more like a natural fit as opposed to, you know, I, I can think back to when I was in the job market, which has been almost a decade now. And but it very much was, there were a lot of roles where it was very clear like I could do this job with no problem. Like it was very much my skill set, my expertise. And I didn't have the words necessarily to fully articulate it, but there were a number of roles that were really clearly not me. And that was how I always framed it was like eh, you know, great opportunity, great pay, not me.

Brandi Starr [00:12:57]:
And I do think that landing in a position and you know, a key reason why I've been here 10 years is having that self awareness, even without the language to describe it, that allowed me to find those fits. And then likewise to. Also you talked about attracting people who want to work with you and be led by you, also in attracting those kind of people who connect with that energy, that archetype that I have, so that they too can, you know, live their best life, do their best work. And so I'd like to talk about that component a little bit and then I'm going to get back to some of the revenue piece because I do think that that that's a key piece to lean into as well. But I'd love to talk a little bit more about this because it's not something that we talk about often. You know, you think about a lot of leadership programs and classes and articles. They don't necessarily talk about turning inward to do some of that self discovery and get to a point of self understanding. So I'd love you to expand on that aspect a bit more.

Mona Bavar [00:14:12]:
Oh, that's beautiful. And I'm so happy you said that because it's absolutely true. We are so focused on goals and it's all about the goals that we can get as soon as possible. The, the way we can reach it and beat our competitors. It's always on the outside. But we don't realize that unless we start to turn inward. And I don't want to sound woo woo and scare off all the business people listening to your podcast, but the turning inward doesn't necessarily mean it's this kind of woo woo, abstract spiritual thing that I'm talking about. It's only about tapping into parts of ourselves that are there.

Mona Bavar [00:14:53]:
But because we're so. And you said it. Because you become so comfortable in a role, you forget that there are many roles within you that you are capable of so many different roles. So you stay in that comfort area where you say, I am the caretaker. So I will continue to take care, whether it's in the job, whether it's at home, I will continue to do that. But inside you're hungry for something else. So you're suffering as the caretaker, you walk away maybe bitter, you walk away unfulfilled. So if you take a moment and you say, you know what, I'm going to sit down today and answer these questions for myself.

Mona Bavar [00:15:35]:
I'm going to sit in front of my chat GBT and say, you know what? How do I show up? This is who I am. This is what I'm all about. How do I show up as the intuitive leader or as. Because we underestimate the word leader. Leader is also a mother, for example, because you're leading your child. Right. A leader is someone that has their own business that is just there, but they have to guide whoever it is that comes into contact with them as people that we're selling, we're leading the client to our product. Right.

Mona Bavar [00:16:12]:
So it shows up in so many different ways. And when I speak about going internal, it means taking time, just a little bit of time to be a little bit more reflective and with a guide or a tool. Because you're absolutely, absolutely right, Brandy, that we spend all of these team building workshops or we do these retreats or companies will take you on a, on dinners or they'll do these experiences that are supposed to be bonding or allow you to tap into your creativity or whatever it is, but it's about team building. All of those are at a superficial level where it's fine, it's absolutely fine. And you will probably meet the objective that you have set. But what I'm saying is let's change the objective. Let's dial it up a bit. Let's make it so that you actually go a little bit deeper than the surface.

Mona Bavar [00:17:09]:
You see that there are things that nothing is broken. There are things that you can bring to the surface and then it will allow you to excel much more. And that will show up in your business, it will show up in your personal life, it will show up in your relationships, it will show up in every aspect of your life where that's what I believe true confidence is. That's what true mission is. Everything becomes clear. It's like the fog has been lifted. And that's my experience.

Brandi Starr [00:17:44]:
Yeah. And I am the same. And you know, I don't avoid tapping into the woo woo stuff, which is not something that gets talked about a lot in business. But there is so much that people try to separate. You know, it's, it's like we are who we are at home and some people try to create this separation as if they bring a different person to the office. And you know, you may try to show up differently but you're right like deep down and I have seen like the caretaker is a great example of that because I had a friend who very senior executive, you know, has, she was in consulting, had worked for you know, some of the, the big five consulting firms. Total rock star. And when I look at that, you know, there were a number of things in her past, in her childhood that really led her to cling on to that caretaker archetype.

Brandi Starr [00:18:46]:
And she showed up that way at home in providing for the family and taking care of the elders and all of these things. And then also showed up that way at work to a point that it was so draining that she ended up on medical leave to where it was just like, you know, that pouring from an empty cup had hit an all time high for her. And I do think, you know, to me one of the like key parts of being a leader is just not being the most senior person and making decisions that are good for the business. It's like once you reach a certain level there's a key part of your role that really is about pouring into and growing up the next generation of leaders. And if we as the leader don't spend that time going way below the surface, whether it is with others or on our own, it's like we are, it's like we're creating gaps within ourselves and then passing that on to the next generation. And that's one of those things that I've seen a lot like I've got, I got 20 something and a 10 year old. So I got, you know, Jen, was it. I think he's Z.

Brandi Starr [00:20:07]:
Yeah, Gen Zna or xna. Either way, looking at you know, both of their generations, you know, they are so much more tapped in to a lot of what's going on, on, on the ins. It's like that I feel like that's going to become the norm and that those sitting in leadership roles today have to embrace that side and that self understanding and that vulnerability with those around them in order to, you know, it's like the next growth is not about what skill can you learn and all those sorts of things. But I, you know, it just, you've given me so many thoughts here in that like this really is like we started our discussion talking about AI, and we'll definitely get back to that piece. But I really think you've hit on something that doesn't get talked about enough.

Mona Bavar [00:21:02]:
And I totally agree with you, because it's funny, when I started my podcast Journey, one of the first podcasts I went on was entrepreneurship and mental health. And you would never think that there would be a podcast dedicated at least, I never thought that there would be a podcast dedicated to this. And it was so interesting because the man who was doing the. The person that I was interviewing with, he was a man. And for him to take the reign and say, you know what, we need to address this. And it's not about coddling someone. It's not at all about that. It's about that balance between the out and the in, the ying and the yang, the masculine and the feminine, whatever you what.

Mona Bavar [00:21:47]:
What you will. But it's about that because that will be true success, and that will be the thing that will preserve yourself as a individual. And it's one individual at a time, right? So if you're doing it and you're in a leadership role, you're also guiding others to do that. So you're creating this for good, let's say. And that's why when they say AI for good, this is how I see it. This is where I say, you know what? There are so many ways that we can use AI. Yes. We're going to use it in all the business ways.

Mona Bavar [00:22:23]:
We're going to implement it in your systems. You're going to save a lot of time, which is wonderful, because with that time that you're going to save, why not invest it in yourself? Why not invest it in these soft skills that will then propel you to stand out, propel you to live a more emotionally healthy life, because you're so in tune with every aspect of yourself. And it's so funny you mentioned the example of the caretaker, because I myself had always lived in the caretaker archetype, and that's because we were immigrants. When we came, I was seven. My parents both had to work, and I was the eldest. So I quickly took on the role of taking care of my younger siblings and that. And I was good at it. So I would also take care of my parents.

Mona Bavar [00:23:14]:
I would. I started to learn how to cook, I started to take care of the house. I started to do all of those. To this day, I'm very good at that. But I no longer want to be the archetype of the care, the caretaker archetype. I now discovered that you Know what? I'm also a creative archetype. I'm also a visionary archetype. That caretaker is there and I'm very good at it and I can tap into it anytime I want.

Mona Bavar [00:23:41]:
But now I want to cultivate these archetypes until I realize that there is this whole360 version of Mona that is comfortable with all of these. So you do this beautiful dance with what's inside of you and it manifests outside. So how wonderful is it that once you feel that confidence and that security that people come and say, you know what, let's talk about it. Because then it's, it comes from honesty, authenticity, vulnerability, courage. So all the things that we love in a, in a leader, right? So that's where I think it's both. AI has helped me do this because otherwise you, you go and you do the research and then you come and you think about it. AI helps you do it. Last year we baited this before we put out the guide.

Mona Bavar [00:24:35]:
So it was, we did the exact same thing. It, the results were phenomenal. And so we decided to put it, put it in this guide and offer it to people. So I hope people like it.

Brandi Starr [00:24:49]:
And I'm going to get to that in a bit. I want to come back to translating what we just talked about into the business realm. Because one of the things I think about brands branding is that a key part of, you know, a brand is telling their story. And if we look at all the articles, all the books, all of the things right now they talk about, storytelling is the way into, you know, consumers hearts and minds, Even when we're B2B and how important it is for a brand to understand their story, be able to tell their story, speak to them in a way, you know, speak to their consumers in a way that resonates. And so there's lots of different approaches to how you tell that brand story. What I hear when I think about this, and some things you said towards the beginning is it's like in addition to us having our own archetypes, it's like our brand has its as well and that, that can be a key part of telling the story. And it was interesting because, you know, I own our brand and you talked about the archetypes and you refer to the sage. And if you look in our brand guidelines like that is one of the ways that I summarize who we are as an organization.

Brandi Starr [00:26:11]:
Never thought about it in the context of the archetypes in that way. And I learned those years ago. So it's probably, you Know, instilled somewhere in me. But thinking about who, you know, almost like giving our brand and identity to understand which of those archetypes align to our brand and how do we bring that out in our story? Because even thinking about, you know, if our brand is the creative, as the marketer, there may be ways that I want to immerse others in our brand. If, you know, instead of a booth at a trade show, we may have a, you know, sip and paint event to bring out that creativity and allow people to experience whatever. If, you know, our brand is more of the caretaker instead of. And I'm just using trade shows because I've been talking to some clients about their trade shows. But you know, instead of a booth at the trade show, that may be the place that you have a coffee station or a massage chairs or you know, those things that are more looking after someone.

Brandi Starr [00:27:22]:
So to me, it's like understanding your brand from that same lens that you need to understand yourself opens you up to a world of creativity and more uniqueness around how you can actually tell that brand story. So I'd love to hear, you know, some of your thoughts because it's kind of like as you're talking, this is where my mind goes. Um, but would definitely like to hear your perspective on, you know, some of the, the, the business to business side of things.

Mona Bavar [00:27:55]:
But I'm so happy you said it the way you said it. And yes, you're absolutely right because our brands, we tell a story. So one thing that we do is we write brand stories. And your brand story is so deep, it's always about the why. And so when you go and you explore your story, like I remember when I started my company, Delish the gifting company and it's around food, art and design. I didn't realize until much more, many years after I had started the brand, what the real story was, that it was always around us being immigrants and the table being a safe haven from whatever was happening in the outside world. So that safe haven is something that stayed with me, remember, because I was the caretaker archetype. And so all the stories, everything that happens around the table, I took with me when I went to university.

Mona Bavar [00:28:49]:
So I would invite people and bring us together around food and the setting of the table and we would talk and it would be about who are you and what's your culture and what's your background? And no longer about what color skin, your religion, your belief, none of that. It was about, let's talk about the food and how our cultures are bridged because of it. And then you share stories. So then I understood. I put together these gift boxes with food and design, a concept that came from the abstract. But there's a story now, and these gift boxes tell that story every time. And so once we understand the why, and the why is always rooted back to something, a moment that maybe we're not even aware of, that it's hibernating within us and we need to wake up. And so once you know that you communicate your brand story, because it's so real and authentic and I can resonate with it, I can.

Mona Bavar [00:29:48]:
It, It. It makes me feel a certain way. Because that's branding, right? An emotional connection to your audience. Once that happens, you say, okay, you know what? I've been successful at communicating this. So if I, if you ask me what is my brand's archetypes for delish, definitely one of them is that caretaker. And that as I explored my story, I realized the other caretaker archetype is the creative. The other one is the visionary. Because we do.

Mona Bavar [00:30:20]:
We're always innovating with gift boxes, and then we get so creative. But I didn't know all of this until I went and understood it. So today, when I sit here with you and you are an expert in this world of marketing and branding, we talk about it and you understand what I'm saying and I understand what you're saying, and we know where it came from and the importance of it. So I think that's where we. And it always goes back to revenues. No, because we say if there is that authentic communication of a brand story, the audience is going to be emotionally connected and they're not going to go to the competitor. Right? Yeah.

Brandi Starr [00:31:02]:
And so I would be remiss if I did not bring it back to AI. And so I would love to understand how you connected AI with this journey and what is it? What is the tool that you built?

Mona Bavar [00:31:19]:
So thank you for asking that. But I have to say that I started AI for myself as a business entrepreneur. Because you're always bootstrapping, right? Especially in the beginning of the launch of your business, I started using AI for content, for marketing, for research, for ideation, for strategy. And as AI improved, which I've been using it for two years now, two and a half years, as it started to improve, my. My exploration of it started to improve. So we started this agency with a couple of friends who are also fellow entrepreneurs in a way for us to help, the same way that it helped us, because I really, really have seen the positive impact it has had on me personally running my businesses. And so even if it's training someone to do the work, whether it's social media management, but you can use AI in a way. And so we, we have AI.

Mona Bavar [00:32:22]:
Our agency is AI with a human touch. And the importance of it is. And what we mean by the human touch is that aspect where we just talked about, if you don't know that your why, if you don't know why you are starting a business and why you want to create the content and who is your target audience, which AI to this, I mean, I don't think it can still, it can do that because you need someone as a soundboard to say, why are you doing this? What happened to you? What I mean, I had a mentor that helped me bring out my story, a business mentor. So it's always that. And that human touch is, is our. What we bring as professionals, as experts, and then we implement it with AI. So that when you learn how to use AI for yourself, you don't sound generic like everybody else out there. You know what your brand voice is, so you stand out.

Mona Bavar [00:33:16]:
You're not doing the SEO search keywords and taking the same ones your competitors are because they're not using this AI human aspect. So it's, it's about using it for business, but how are you using it for business? And that human side is where we come in. And that's why the guides that we create, it's about exploring your human side first. To know yourself is to know why you're doing what you're doing. And that's what, And I have to tell you, Brandy, sorry to interrupt you, but that is what's going to help because AI is only going to continue to grow and get easier to use. But that's what's going to differentiate businesses in the, as we go on in this journey of AI is how are you authentic in your presentation of your brand and yourself?

Brandi Starr [00:34:11]:
Well, yeah, it is. Yeah. So, so interesting. And it, this adds another layer of how people are using AI because I think every day I learn a different use case that I hadn't thought of that, you know, someone else is using. And I think that's the exciting part of, you know, being a part of this journey this time where, you know, this technology is evolving so rapidly and is growing to allow us to do so much more is understanding. Like, and just really there's so many things that you can't even fathom being able to do until you hear someone talk about it. And it's like, oh, like I gotta try that. And so talking about our challenges is just the first step.

Brandi Starr [00:34:55]:
And nothing changes if nothing changes. And so in traditional therapy, the therapist gives the client some homework, but here at Revenue Rehab, we like to flip that on its head and ask you to give us some homework. And so I would love to hear your one thing. If what you have said has resonated with the audience, what's the first step that you suggest that they take?

Mona Bavar [00:35:21]:
I definitely recommend that they reach out. Contact us. They can contact us at blueapples AI and set up a discovery call and understand what works with you. If not, go and sit in front of you. There are guides. You can purchase the guide or you can just go sit down in front of your LLM, whether it's chat, GPT, Claude, Gemini, whatever it is, and start to play with it, having fun. And my intention was to have fun. And that's how I approach AI.

Mona Bavar [00:35:55]:
Have fun with it. I mean, some days I'm having a really off day and I go and sit and say, listen, I'm having an off day. Help me get through this. And so just have fun with it. And these are the first steps I recommend if it, if any of what I have said about the archetypes or do your research about the archetypes, go and maybe you're not familiar with them and understand them and see if it, it makes sense to you. Because at the end of the day, it's. Everybody has their own approach and everybody has something that works best for them because the objective is the same. It's how, it's the medium that we use.

Mona Bavar [00:36:37]:
So it can be a canvas, it can be writing, it can be whatever it is, but that's how we explore ourselves. And so that's what I recommend.

Brandi Starr [00:36:48]:
Okay. Yeah, as a, as an overarching action, it really is taking some time to dig deeper and explore and understand yourself. Well, Mona, I have enjoyed our discussion, but that's our time for today. But before we go, how can our audience connect with you?

Mona Bavar [00:37:08]:
I invite them to, I, as I mentioned, go on blueapples AI and set up a discovery call if they're interested. And if they want to speak with me personally, they can follow me on LinkedIn under Mona Bavar and shoot me a message if you're curious about anything.

Brandi Starr [00:37:29]:
Awesome. Well, we will make sure to link to both your LinkedIn and Blue Apple's AI, so check the show notes wherever you are listening or watching this podcast. Mona, thanks again so, so much for joining me. I truly have enjoyed this discussion.

Mona Bavar [00:37:47]:
Thank you very much Brandy. It was pleasure speaking with you. You're wonderful.

Brandi Starr [00:37:51]:
Awesome. And thanks, everyone, for joining us. I hope you have enjoyed my discussion with Mona. I can't believe we're at the end. Until next time.