Beyond the ICP: Exploring Influence in Partner Ecosystems

Brandi Starr [00:00:34]:
Hello, hello, hello and welcome to another episode of Revenue Rehab. I am your host Brandi Starr and we have another amazing episode for you today I am joined by Greg Plum. Greg has been recognized as an industry expert in ecosystem channel development, having built partner programs from scratch for multiple SaaS providers and facilitating partner Ready's ecosystem academy for numerous technology company founders in the US and Canada. He has lobbied on Capitol Hill in support of the IT industry and is a three time TEDx speaker. Greg also currently serves as a member of Comptia's North America Community Executive Council, chair of Technology Forum of Delaware and mentor for the University of Delaware's executive mentor program. Greg, welcome to Revenue rehab. Your session begins now.

Greg Plum [00:01:33]:
Hey Brandi, good to see you.

Brandi Starr [00:01:35]:
Good to see you. Good to have you. I feel like I am in the presence of royalty as a three time tag x speaker.

Greg Plum [00:01:43]:
I think I say because my beard is gray.

Brandi Starr [00:01:48]:
We can take that too. Just equally as impressive. Well Greg, before we jump into our topic, I like to break the ice with a little woo saw moments that I call buzzword banishment. So tell me, what overused word would you like to get rid of forever?

Greg Plum [00:02:10]:
I'm gonna break the rules. I have two. I'm sorry but I have to. The one is super simple because I see it all the time and it's thought leader. I mean I get it, I get it. But honestly I think we're all thought leaders in some capacity. I mean if you're not a thought leader, what are you? I mean what does that make everybody else? So I just, I kind of shy away from that term. Okay.

Greg Plum [00:02:33]:
The other one that we're going to talk about today because it's really what I hear day in, day out is ecosystem and really what that means. I say I want it banished, but I want it banished from the incorrect context. That's really what it's about and that's what we're going to talk about today. So it'll mean more to you as we, as we dig into this. But that's the word. That's the word I'm going to pick for today's ecosystem.

Brandi Starr [00:02:55]:
Okay, I won't tackle ecosystem since I know we're going to talk about that, but let's talk about this thought leader, because what else do you call it? Because I do believe that we all have thoughts, but there are individuals and organizations that have a desire to be a leader or to be well known for their independent thinking, the way they see the world. So what term should we use?

Greg Plum [00:03:24]:
Evangelist? To me, that's an evangelist, that's somebody who has original thought. They may actually, quite frankly, they may not have to have original thoughts. They just convey them in an influential and motivating manner. But to me, you know, a thought leader, if everybody has that capacity, it does not necessarily mean they want to be seen in that light and force themselves out. Many, you know, you look at the disc profile, many don't want the spotlight on them. That doesn't mean they're not a thought leader. That's, that's the reason that I kind of shy away from that term.

Brandi Starr [00:03:56]:
Okay. I like evangelists. I may adopt that one.

Greg Plum [00:04:00]:
Fair enough.

Brandi Starr [00:04:01]:
Because I do, I do agree that thought leader is overused and often used in weird ways. So I like yours, and I will try to adopt that one. So at least for today, I will not use the term thought leader. Can't say I won't use word ecosystem because I know that's what we're talking about.

Greg Plum [00:04:21]:
We're going to use it in the right way, though. That's what we're going to do today.

Brandi Starr [00:04:23]:
There we go. So now that we've gotten that off our chest, tell me, what brings you to revenue rehab today?

Greg Plum [00:04:30]:
Well, I have to say first and foremost, I'm a rehab addict myself. I mean, I'm an old house guy. So when I saw, when I saw what you were doing, I was like, I love the concept because it's a about taking something that might need work, but there's intrinsic value that you want to enhance the value of as opposed to ripping and replacing and, you know, raising a structure and creating something new. That's not what you're doing. You're taking something that you see the value and you're really doubling down on that. So that concept, I love it. It's exactly what I do when I work with companies. I usually work with software companies.

Greg Plum [00:05:05]:
It's not exclusive to software, but obviously that's a, a mainstay these days in the industry, in business. So I work with software founders, helping them identify new routes to market. So why rehab? Well, just look at the industry. There are layoffs left and right. I think companies are failing to hit metrics that were set aside. There was a lot of PE money, private equity funds that went into the industry, it went into the industry with expectation. You fast forward three to five years and if those expectations aren't met, then changes have to be made. And that's kind of where we're sitting right now.

Greg Plum [00:05:45]:
So my thought is, and I'm not going to claim this is my own thought, this is just, this is a, there is a school of thought right now where the lion's share, and it can be proven, the lion's share of business actually flows through channels, through partners, as opposed to direct. Instead of going direct from consumer, from manufacturer to consumer, there is a single or a series of, quote unquote, middlemen or partners or distributors that actually help execute that sale. Why not better understand what that channel is all about and how to actually leverage it and maximize it and get the most out of it for a company to get their products to the end customer, the end user, I love.

Brandi Starr [00:06:27]:
It, and I agree with you. And in a minute, I will share with you my bone to pick with the channel community and infrastructure as a place to start with this conversation. Before I do that, I believe in setting intentions. It gives us focus, it gives us purpose, and most important, it gives our audience an understanding of what they should expect from our conversation today. So what's your best hope for our talk? What would you like for people to take away from the discussion?

Greg Plum [00:06:58]:
I would like for the audience to think about their current customers and then walk away. There's going to be a homework assignment here that's not going to be graded. There's going to be a homework assignment that's going to give you the ability to really look for, to identify a new route to revenue that is a promise that's included, that you're going to walk away with that. What I want you to do is just think about your current customers right now as we're having these conversations, and then try to get maybe three of them in mind and we'll talk about how to, what we're going to do with them.

Brandi Starr [00:07:31]:
Okay, well, I've got three in mind for ours. I mean, we're not a technology company, but I'm going to go along with the exercise. So I do agree with you in that there, you know, that a lot of business flows through partners, and that is whether there is an actual partnership, you know, with the two brands or just unofficially. And a lot of that, you know, what they call the dark funnel. A lot of that is through a partner community. And I mean, as a consultant, I know we are consistently recommending whether it's technologies, other vendors, ways to do things that I know triggers customers to start to explore specific vendors or categories of vendors for different types of things. And my bone to pick with the partner ecosystem is really, it goes back to the exact reason why you're here is I think most companies do it wrong in that there is this volume play, number one of how do we drive the most partners possible. There is also sort of a very one mono thought process, like in terms of what partnership is.

Brandi Starr [00:08:56]:
And so I really am looking forward to hearing your perspective on how we create these mutually beneficial relationships. And I love that new route to revenue or a rehabs route to revenue, because there's a lot of companies that do already have channel as a route, but it's a route that's kind of barely chugging along. And so my first question for you is, I know that you have this mentality of thinking backwards, of starting with the ICP in order to identify the right kinds of partners. So I want to start there and let you share your perspective.

Greg Plum [00:09:40]:
Sure. Thank you. And you did something that I hear often, and I love that you did this. You said channel, and you shifted mentally from ecosystem to channel, and that's what happened. And I know you didn't draw that correlation, but I drew it in my mind because I hear it all the time in tech. It's used interchangeably, ecosystem and channel. And that's what I said I want to make sure we address today they are not the same as I define. And look, if you ask ten different people, you're going to get ten different answers, for the most part, with some nuance there.

Greg Plum [00:10:12]:
The way I see it, Brandy, is ecosystem is basically all influencers in that 360 around some entity. We'll get back to that in a second. Channel is one of those influencers, but just one of them. We want to make sure we're not saying, okay, it's a channel strategy. Ecosystem strategy and channel strategy are not, they're not the same, really, quite frankly, because channel is a subset. So, getting back to the question, and I love this, how do you use your ICP, your ideal customer profile? How does that guide your business, and how does that serve as the silver bullet in trying to find new revenue? Well, you're right. You said so many of them are done incorrectly, and you're absolutely right. Statistically.

Greg Plum [00:11:02]:
Now, we all know that most statistics are made up or can't be verified, so we're not going to really care about the number as much, other than the fact that the vast majority, let's call it less than a quarter of partnerships actually fail. Right. Partner programs fail. Why? Not? Because the people are bad, not because maybe there's not market fit. It's a misalignment. It comes down to alignment of end customer to the provider. Those partners in the middle have to be perfectly aligned. If they're not, they're just going to get in the way and you're not going to have a very effective program.

Greg Plum [00:11:36]:
So there's two ways to do it. I hear this all the time. A SaaS lead or a CEO will come to me and say, okay, I want to build a channel, I want to build a partner program. Okay? They don't say, I want to build an ecosystem. They say, I want to build a partner, a channel or partner program. All right, great. First thing they ask is, who do I know that can sell my stuff? It's the wrong question to ask. That's the ecosystem, what they're building.

Greg Plum [00:12:00]:
They're building this whole entity around themselves, putting themselves at the middle. The challenge here is to say, who is my ICP? Who is my ideal customer? That's why I said, for everybody listening, pick three that you work with right now that you would love to replicate. They are, I'm not going to say easy to work with, but they're rewarding to work with. They are profitable. They're not a, you know, a time suck. They're not dragging you down. They're actually helping you propel your business and allow you to do what you do best. That's what you want to replicate.

Greg Plum [00:12:31]:
So pick three of those. Now, what we're going to do is we're going to, what I call scrutinize them. And that sounds like a negative term, but it's not. It means, from my definition, get in and really figure out what they do day in, day out, their job to be done, who impacts them, what are they buying? Who are they buying from? When are they buying? Why are they buying? What's motivating them? What's influencing them, what organizations do they belong to? Right now what you have is a 360 view. Not around yourself, but around your customer, your ICP. What happens is you're going to start to get visibility into these different players and entities that you might be able to align with. It doesn't mean you align with all of them, but it means now you know who's influenced your customer. How do you find those that are ideal and how do you help that partner better serve their customer? That's the winning solution.

Greg Plum [00:13:23]:
So it's not about having 5000 partners, it's about having five that are perfectly aligned, and you're in lockstep, and you're building business together. That's. That's the key. Makes sense.

Brandi Starr [00:13:35]:
Okay. Yes, it does. And you got me thinking. I think that's the hardest part of hosting this show, is when my guests get me thinking, my mind starts to go, and I'm like, wait a minute, I gotta ask questions.

Greg Plum [00:13:45]:
I want you to think, that's awesome. Let me do, let me. Let me paint a picture, because I think a picture, it just, it's just easier. Think of IndyCar, Indie race, or NASCAR, right? You've got the driver going around the track, driver being the customer. The ICP, they pull into the pit stop. Have you ever, have you ever seen a car race? What happens when they pull into a pit stop?

Brandi Starr [00:14:05]:
Everybody swarms them, and they all, everybody's got their part, and they do all the things in, like 3 seconds, and then they're out.

Greg Plum [00:14:13]:
Exactly. They all have their own unique job with a common goal of getting that driver back out on the track as soon as possible. Same concept that is the ecosystem. What we want to identify is who are all of those players around that driver? Those are the ones that we want to figure out how we work with, how we help that entity better serve their customer. Then the beauty is we help them with that customer. They've got other customers right now. They bring us along. That is an ecosystem strategy.

Greg Plum [00:14:41]:
That's what makes all the difference. And new routes to revenue.

Brandi Starr [00:14:45]:
I believe that that is a beautiful thing. And although I'm not, you know, a race fan, I have always been very impressed by the pit stops and how they're able to do that and how people are not in each other's way and, you know, all those sorts of things. And there's a lot that you can draw from that analogy and thinking about channel partners and, like, because if I really think about all the technology vendors that an organization is using, along with the agencies consultancies, it's like if you have all those people working together for that customer's best interest, it can be as beautiful as an Indy 500 pit stop. What I see, the challenge being in where I see a lot of companies struggle with their partner programs, is they aren't able to get that level of coordination. You know, I even look at ourselves and some of our largest clients who have, you know, for some, we've got great relationships with their tech vendors. We're talking, like, before their qbrs about what's happening. What are we seeing? Like, so that what each of us is talking about to the customer about is very unified. And so I do see it in small pockets, and I've talked to others who also see it in small pockets.

Brandi Starr [00:16:10]:
But then there is often these situations where nobody's responsible, so there's nobody at this tech vendor or this partner that wants to have the conversation. You get egos involved where I'm changing the right tire, but in my mind, I think I may be able to do all the tires, so I don't want to play nice with the person that has to do the left tire. You know, there's all these things that in addition to companies not choosing the right partners, there's all this other stuff that I think gets in the way. And I think, you know, nobody seems to talk about that part. So since we use the analogy, I want to bring that up and hear what you're seeing around. You know, if we choose the right ones, how do we still, you know, how do we get that seamless coordination around one goal from the top?

Greg Plum [00:17:05]:
It has to start at the top. You have to have the strategy. We basically call it, you know, it's an organizational partner strategy. Once you have that, then you can start to figure out what type of partner you work with and what's even more important. You mentioned something about people getting each other's way. Well, we actually have a term for that, channel conflict. So channel conflict can come a couple of different flavors. It could be external, where you have partners out looking to drum up business, you have an internal sales force doing the same thing.

Greg Plum [00:17:33]:
What happens when they cross paths? You know, I mean, that's a big world out there, but there are some, you know, it will happen. How do you handle that? You know, there are strategies, right? There's methodologies that you should follow to ensure that those, they're navigated properly and you mitigate damage. There's partner to partner. So what happens if you work with, you know, no one's going to have an exclusive partnership. You're going to have multiple entities out there. What happens when they both come in with a deal? The same deal? It happens, and it happened to me where I had a large client, two vastly distinct, different partners. They work through different agencies, like a distributor. So in the tech space, there's things called TSDS technology solutions distributor.

Greg Plum [00:18:20]:
So basically what they are, they're almost like an aggregator of different services, and then a partner will work with them instead of going directly to the. So there's another middleman there, but they add tons of value. We had this single deal come in from two totally different worlds almost the same time. So clearly the client was shopping. So what do you do? I mean, my mind has always been, okay, you go to the procuring cause of revenue, that who caused that revenue to happen. That's who should get credit for. Regardless what the other entity is saying. This particular case, both pitched very, very strong case, very, very strong arguments.

Greg Plum [00:18:57]:
Revenue was not brought in yet. It was about the same time. So we, we just, you know what? That's where you drop the gloves, you open the kimono, and you bring everybody around the table, say, here's what's going on. Let's have some transparency, let's be big people, and let's figure this out. And we did. I mean, it was a challenge, you know? You know, I was going to get the business no matter what. I wanted to make sure we had damage control. We didn't hurt ourselves with either of the partners.

Greg Plum [00:19:21]:
So what we did, honestly, this is, sounds pretty simple. Now, looking back on it, we had the customer choose. Customer told us, okay, because we had two senior execs, c levels that were involved. Each partner said, I got this c level. Okay, I got this c level. Okay, great. Let's all bring this. You tell us which one, as a company you want to work with, which partner.

Greg Plum [00:19:43]:
They made the decision. That's how we fulfilled it. That's how that channel conflict was handled. So, could have been a disaster. It wasn't disaster avoided simply because we let logic reign. And we were. I can't say logic always reigns, but it really does come in having the right processes in place, having the right people. Too often when somebody says, I want to have a partner program, they take a salesperson, a direct salesperson, and put them in charge of partners.

Greg Plum [00:20:09]:
It is a different motion, it is a different mindset, a different motivation is much more of a long game. It is less transactional. And somebody who's really good at direct sales might pull their hair out and not enjoy that type of environment. So you need to make sure you get the right, you know, the right people on the bus.

Brandi Starr [00:20:27]:
Yeah. Cause I know in general, like, I've had some experience in the channel marketing side, and I know in general, the people that manage a channel usually are people who have a stronger tie to building those relationships, as opposed to, like, that direct seller who is more hungry, the hunter. It's like those are very different personalities. And I do think that sometimes one thing, and this is a general corporate America thing that I see happen, but sometimes there's the next logical step. So someone gets promoted into a role that takes them out of what they're amazing at and puts them in this other thing. And I see that happen a lot with someone who is promoted to lead channel programs because they were a great seller. And it's like those don't go together 100%.

Greg Plum [00:21:23]:
Absolutely.

Brandi Starr [00:21:25]:
And so in thinking about being able to tap into this, into a channel, the most common types of relationships are what you're describing, where you have those partners that are bringing you direct revenue, you know, making recommendations, helping to drive the sale. Where do you see the role of other forms of partnerships? Because I know it seems like those are the only relationships I see. Those are the only channel programs that I see are those, that are. These channel partners are, you know, bringing us direct revenue.

Greg Plum [00:22:03]:
So, you know, there are there a myriad of types of partnerships, but I look at them generally in just a few buckets where you have, that's a referral partner to me, meaning I have somebody out in the field. I'm not paying them a salary, I pay them, it's a revenue share. So whatever comes in an x percent, let's say 20% of the revenue that comes in gets paid out to that partner for bringing that business to us. And oftentimes they're evergreen, meaning for the life of the customer. So you can see that could be a very lucrative business model for, for the partner. And, you know, some CEO's will balk at that. I'm like, wait a minute, they say 20% for life. Why would I do that? Well, you do that because you get to keep 80% of a dollar that you never would have seen otherwise.

Greg Plum [00:22:44]:
That's why you do that. That's why you have this program. The other nice thing about is it's a little less tangible, is you're brought in further down the sales cycle. If you've done a good job on the front end with enablement, with educating and enabling your partner where they know where you fit, you don't have to talk to that prospect until they're already ready to buy. They've already been qualified by that partner. So they're brought in, you know, in the funnel, in the sales funnel, then they're way down, the way down the stack versus at the top of the funnel. So it's going to much quicker time just to close. That's one of the other benefits, other types of partners.

Greg Plum [00:23:21]:
That's your referral partner. Then you have what I call, you know, like a wholesale or a reseller type partner, where basically that's where the partner buys the service. At a discount, typically 20, 30% discount off of the retail puts it on their paper, meaning they bill it, they bundle it in with other services, and then, because it. They might also be called a VAR, value added reseller. So they're bundling in other things and then taking that and then building that out to the customer. So they quote, unquote, own that customer, since it's sitting on their paper, they're buying it from the provider, bundling it, and sending it to the. To the end user. A really popular delivery mechanism there or type of company today in tech is the MSP, the managed services provider.

Greg Plum [00:24:04]:
They're outsourced it. So that's what they do. They aggregate different services. Communication, cybersecurity, desktop services, pull them all together. They're the help desk. They bundle it. They send it out to the customer with a single invoice. So you can see the value of that type of service.

Greg Plum [00:24:21]:
So that right now, I always joke that the MSP right now is the prettiest girl at the dance because all tech companies want to work with them because it's a great route to revenue. And then the third overall overarching bucket is really technology partnerships. Those are ones where two entities come together to create something of value that didn't exist beforehand. Best example I could throw you, it's a little bit old. 2007, Apple and at and T, they joined forces, and they created the iPhone, right? So that was the first. And that was, you know, right now, obviously, it's rolled out to other providers, but they were the first two. They put the two, and one could not exist without the other. Apple needed at and T.

Greg Plum [00:25:06]:
At and t needed Apple for the device to actually bring that solution to market. That is a technology partnership. So that's the third bucket, usually a little more complicated. And that's where they're bolting on. Those are some of the big partnerships you see announced, you know, an OEM, if you've heard of OEM, where it's where you're basically taking different solutions, like in the automotive. That's huge. In the automotive motive industry, the manufacturers basically assemble these different products. They're buying all these different parts from other companies, putting them together, and then rolling it out to the.

Greg Plum [00:25:37]:
To the client. So those are, in general, the three big, you got technology partnerships, referral partnerships, and then wholesale or reseller partnerships.

Brandi Starr [00:25:45]:
Okay. And that, that helps because, you know, thinking about all those routes to revenue, those are really like three distinct one, you know, three distinct ones. And they are often, I'm trying to think of the way I want to phrase it, when I think about partner programs, I see many companies, it's like they almost pick one as opposed to thinking about them holistically. Do you think, is that normal? Is that preferred? Is that just kind of what happens?

Greg Plum [00:26:20]:
Well, I think you have to, you have to pick one, or it doesn't necessarily have to be one, but it has to fit your business model. I worked with a company, the largest conferencing company. You might know that it's going back a bit. It was freeconferencecall.com dot. They were huge hu, the largest privately held conferencing company in the world around 2010 to 15 ish. And they've built on their own platform, they built their brand. So I was in charge of global partnerships for them, creating a channel and offer. Well, a lot of the partners in that space wanted to have white label, they wanted to completely private label and keep it under their own brand.

Greg Plum [00:27:02]:
Well, that kind of was anti, it went against one of the core values of the company, and what the early success of the company was around that brand, and leveraging that brand, you pull that away, you theoretically dilute their value. So that meant a certain type of partnership is going to be more valuable to the business than the other. So as a result, we had to let our business goals, what's important to this business, to grow in this business? Well, yeah, wholesale would be great. We knew we needed them. But guess what? That might not be the best thing for our business. It may not be how we want to grow our business. So because of that, we need to find partners that actually fit our model. So in that particular case, that kind of referrals, that was the way to go.

Greg Plum [00:27:47]:
It allowed us to keep our brand. We had revenue share, and we got a new route to market wholesale. Not so much of a fit there. However, I'm a big fan when somebody comes, when we start talking about programs. I love, I hate single threaded. Being single threaded makes me a little bit nervous. As long as it fits, as long as you can make it work and you have the operations to support it. I love having a referral model.

Greg Plum [00:28:10]:
That's super easy, right? Basically, you just track it, you attribute it to the right partner, and you make sure that they get credit for it and they get their share of revenue for the life of that customer. That's pretty simple. Reseller is a little more complicated. But what I love about that is essentially when you set them up in a wholesale type relationship, you've got one main point, you're not worrying about the end customers. You're not billing the end customers. You're building one entity and you take good care of them as your distribution arm, they're going to take good care of you. That turned into my biggest win of my career. It started with a phone call, a simple phone call from Canada, from a budding company that wanted to get into communications.

Greg Plum [00:28:51]:
They were good at marketing, but that was it. They didn't have any infrastructure. They knew they wanted to leverage another platform. We were fortunate enough to become that platform, and it was a reseller relationship. I never knew their customers. I didn't know them. I knew them intimately. I mean, we were joined at the hip for years, but as a result, it turned into an extremely lucrative relationship for us, for my company as well as for them.

Greg Plum [00:29:17]:
They ended up being purchased for several million dollars. Several, several million dollars. Unfortunately, I was not in equity. I did not have an equity position. But it really comes down to having the right, setting up the right partnerships that fit your business model. That's when instead of starting outside first, like ICP, you're always starting there first. And working backwards here, it's a little bit different. Start at home.

Greg Plum [00:29:40]:
What type of partnership is going to make our business successful? What do we want to dig into? Then we go out and find that type of partnership and then find that value prop. How do we make that type of partner more valuable to their customers? Simple as that.

Brandi Starr [00:29:55]:
Perfect. I want to shift gears to sort of the last area that I want to talk about, which is channel marketing. So, you know, in thinking about, we talked a lot about partner programs, how to find the right partners, how to lead with your ICP. You know, the different types of programs. There is a component of marketing where marketers, often the same marketers that are marketing to end users, are also marketing to channel. And so I'd love to, and this is just a real blanket question. Love to hear any thoughts or advice that you have for those that are trying to communicate with the channel to, you know, onboard them, get them to sign up to, you know, actually get them to use the partnership. Like any thoughts around communication strategy or the things that those that are leading marketing need to be thinking about when trying to get in front of those partners?

Greg Plum [00:31:00]:
Yes. You're familiar with the concept of a swot analysis, where you go in and you look at strengths, weaknesses. That's what you want to do with these partners. Find out where they're weak. Oftentimes you're going to find they're weak in marketing. So that is the opportunity to dovetail, come to the rescue, be that provider, that solution, that's going to not only provide the solution, but help them market and take that to market, that's going to be invaluable. So if you can find where they're weak and where you can kind of fortify them, that's going to be the strength. And it might be as simple as taking your direct facing documents, putting them in their hands, but maybe the ability for them to be co branded or where they can, where they can swap out contact information so they can be the point person for the customer.

Greg Plum [00:31:42]:
You've done all the work, you're teeing it up for them, have them take it out to their customers, you both win.

Brandi Starr [00:31:48]:
Okay? Yeah. And I think that that is something that I see probably most channel programs have at least some form of, some have the MDF funds, so marketing development funds for those not familiar or, you know, they've got co branded marketing or events. And I just, I think about more of the, like, when I worked on the channel side, one of the biggest challenges I had was just keeping them engaged because, you know, usually when a partner signs up to become a partner, it's usually because there's some trigger, like there's a potential opportunity they're about to recommend. So they're like, you know, let me get my share of this. And so they're usually real gung ho when they first become partners. But I do see, like, I remember working with a client they had, I don't remember how many thousands of partners in their partner database, but when you looked at how many had done anything, like, had just even an open opportunity, not actual closed revenue, the number was so, so small and it was like, oh, you know, it's hard to keep them engaged over time. And so, you know, I'm always working. Communication strategy is a big part of what we do.

Brandi Starr [00:33:07]:
And so I'm always working with clients and trying to crack that nut. And so someone like you, that's got so much exciting experience in that, I'd love to hear any thoughts around, like how you keep them engaged beyond, you know, getting them on board in that initial sale.

Greg Plum [00:33:24]:
Well, it's certainly consistency because it's very easy. In the beginning, of course, everybody's excited. Staying consistent with the communication is huge, and hit them with what's, you know, you mentioned MDF and yeah, that's certainly an opportunity. And there's, there are spiffs out there, right. Same thing on the sales side of things, the equivalent. I've never been a huge fan of those, because I just feel like it opens up the door for maybe, perhaps, maybe not the strongest recommendation of a solution. Because if one has a spiff and the other one doesn't, human nature says, well, maybe I'm going to steer them toward the moment, the spiff. So I'm not necessarily a fan of that when you should be looking for optimal solution for that customer, for that situation.

Greg Plum [00:34:07]:
But I think what has happened, trends that I'm seeing, Brandi, instead of like the mass marketing, the big shows, and I still do them, but the smaller, regional, more intimate events, I think are really impactful because it allows you to have genuine conversations as opposed to, I work as many trade show booths as anybody, and you do get something out of it as far as at least brand awareness. But to really be able to connect with a partner or prospective partner, it's usually you have to take it off of the floor. And that's why they say most deals at those shows happen at the bar, you know, at the hotel bar. And it's the truth. It's because you're able to have a genuine conversation and get to know that person on a personal level. It's not a transaction, it is a relationship.

Brandi Starr [00:34:54]:
I absolutely love that. And that is sound advice, because, you know, I do think that that's the hard part, is the staying consistent and making sure that you are doing those other things besides just communications like that, that relationship building. And that goes back to who's running your channel programs. Well, Greg, talking about our challenges is just the first step. And nothing changes if nothing changes. And so in traditional therapy, the client gives. The therapist gives the client some homework. But here at revenue rehab, we like to flip that on its head and ask you to give us some homework.

Brandi Starr [00:35:31]:
So I know you came into this warning everyone that they were getting some homework and that it's not being graded. So now is that time. Tell us, what is our one thing? What is our action item coming out of this conversation?

Greg Plum [00:35:44]:
Okay, well, early on, I said, start thinking about three customers, three clients that you have right now, ones that you'd want to replicate. I would like to challenge you to set up a discovery call with them. I don't care if you talked to them last week, if you talked to them last year, it doesn't matter. Set up a call a good amount of time. If you can do it in person, even better. But if it's virtual, that's fine. Obviously, we're able to do that effectively these days. It should be a minimum of a 90 minutes session where you're sitting down and really taking a deep dive, understanding, you know, how they use your service.

Greg Plum [00:36:19]:
You don't know what else they're doing. You have no idea. There's tons of tribal knowledge around that company that you're just not privy to. So that's what you want to gain access to meet with them, find out all the different aspects. What else are you buying? What other tech stacks do you use? Salesforce? Do you use Microsoft? Do you work with a sales consultant? Do you work with an attorney? Do you work with an insurance agent? Find all of these players in their ecosystem and start ask the questions, where does it hurt? If there's one thing you needed to fix over the next, I don't know, 90 days, where would you focus? These are types of things it's going to allow you to have to take on the role instead of salesperson or even consultant, trusted advisor. Right. That's probably one of those terms that should probably show up on a banished terms in a future session. But truly, you want to be that person.

Greg Plum [00:37:18]:
You want to be the one. It's almost like I always joke with people, okay, here's the leather couch. Have a seat. Let's talk. Tell me where it hurts. That way we can figure out, all right, I may not be the solution, but maybe I can tee up something else or I might be able to connect some other dots. That's what I, you know, if you can have, pick three of them and take a really, really deep dive and understand all of those, pretend they're the IndyCar driver, your customer, find out everybody who's influencing them. Do they belong to any organizations? What events do they attend? All these things.

Greg Plum [00:37:48]:
Guess what? You might walk away saying, hey, guess what? We should be at that event. I didn't even think about that. We should be there. That is the type of thing that's the homework. Pick three and meet with them. Do it quickly because, you know, let's say within the next two weeks, pick 90 minutes. And I would love, I don't know, brand, if there's a way to get feedback or so. I'm not sure how to, but I would love to hear the findings of that because I promise you, if it's done well, I promise you, it's going to impact your business.

Brandi Starr [00:38:15]:
Well, that's a great segue into saying, tell us how people can connect with you. And definitely, I know that you do some workshops, do the shameless plug. Tell us for those that you know that what you're saying is resonating with them. How do they stay connected.

Greg Plum [00:38:33]:
So, I mean, the easiest way is LinkedIn. I mean, I'm a LinkedIn junkie just like everybody else. That's the easiest way to grab me. And the company is partner ready. I know we're going to put a few. I think there's some links that'll be tied to this. We have to worry about that right now. So partner ready is an ecosystem advisory firm, and we help.

Greg Plum [00:38:53]:
That's literally that work with revenue leaders, help to uncover. Take a look at that ICP and find new routes to revenue. I would be willing. Anybody wants to do this, you want to take me up on it? Go out to LinkedIn? You can. I. My scheduler's out there. You can even grab time on my scheduler. 30 minutes.

Greg Plum [00:39:11]:
If you want to talk, tell me where it hurts. I'm happy to have a chat. No hard push because I couldn't handle that many customers anyway. But I'm happy to have those opening discussions because I just. Those. To me, the first 30 minutes are super eye opening for the client. When they're first hearing these things, you'll see that the light bulbs go off. And then if I can help you beyond that, that'd be great.

Greg Plum [00:39:35]:
But I'd welcome that conversation just to have that initial chat. And I guarantee you'll walk away with a few things that you can act on and totally free.

Brandi Starr [00:39:43]:
Awesome. Well, we will make sure to link to your LinkedIn as well as partner Ready's website, so that if, wherever you are listening or watching the show, check the show notes so that you can connect with Greg. Greg, I have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion. You have given me some things to think about, which is always lovely. And I've got. I've got a few clients already that I'm like, I need to send this episode to them because they've got, you know, they've got strong partner channels, but there's definitely always opportunity there. So again, thank you for taking the time to join me.

Greg Plum [00:40:21]:
Thanks, Brandon. I've enjoyed the time together.

Brandi Starr [00:40:23]:
Awesome. I hope you have. Hope everyone has enjoyed my conversation with Greg. I can't believe we're at the end. We'll see you next time.