Budget-Friendly Breakthroughs: How Research Drives Revenue

Brandi Starr [00:00:34]:
Hello, hello, hello and welcome to another episode of Revenue Rehab. I am your host, Brandy Star and we have another amazing episode for you today. I am joined by Liz Har. Liz is an accomplished entrepreneur and executive specializing in brand management and growth strategies for professional services firms. A managing partner at Hinge Marketing, she leads Hinge's client delivery team, helping businesses solve critical marketing and brand related challenges. Liz has co authored several books and research studies including the Visible Expert Revolution and Hinges annual high growth reports and is a regular speaker and writer in the professional services circles. Liz, welcome to Revenue Rehab. Your session begins now.

Liz Harr [00:01:28]:
Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

Brandi Starr [00:01:31]:
Yes, I am excited to have you and excited for our topic today. But before we dive into that, I like to break the ice with a little woosah moments that I call buzzword banishment. So tell me, what industry buzzword would you like to get rid of forever?

Liz Harr [00:01:50]:
Oh, there's so many. I think the one that is annoying me the most these days is the term actionable insights. None of us have time for unactionable insights. We don't want unactionable insights. So just call it insights. It is. That is what we mean. Let's just say what we mean.

Brandi Starr [00:02:10]:
I, I do like that. And I can say that I am one that is guilty of using actionable insights. And you did just make a good point in that if it's insights, it is actionable. So I am going to, you know, try real hard to change that term. I think the hardest part of buzzword banishment being the icebreaker is there are so many things that now I'm aware of and when I say them, I'm like, oh, cringe. So now that we've got that off our chest, tell me what brings you to Revenue Rehab today?

Liz Harr [00:02:49]:
Well, I am here to share the good news that in order to yield big results and ultimately good revenue and profitable revenue from your marketing, you do not have to spend a ton. You can actually spend less and yield big results.

Brandi Starr [00:03:10]:
That is such a very timely topic as we are going into the end of the year and many people are doing budget planning and recognizing that their budgets aren't getting any bigger, but the goals are continuing to grow and get, you know, more and more aggressive. So before we dive all the way in. I believe in setting intentions. It gives us focus, it gives us purpose, and most important, it gives our audience an understanding of what they should expect. Expect for today. So what's your best hope? What's your intention for the conversation?

Liz Harr [00:03:49]:
I would love for everybody to be in the mindset that marketing is a science. And I. I have this little formula in my head that I think is so powerful, and that is that, and I'll talk about this. But research yields relevance, Relevance yields revenue. And when you approach your marketing with that formula in mind, your strategy is gold.

Brandi Starr [00:04:18]:
Okay, that gives me a good place to dive in because that is a unique perspective. I don't always hear, you know, relevance. I hear always. And of course, revenue is always the hot topic. But I don't always see that tied to research. So I think that's a great place to start and dive into the research component of that. In what you mean by research drives relevance.

Liz Harr [00:04:44]:
Yeah, I love starting there. So what I'm really talking about when I talk about research is studying your target audience's behavior. How does your target audience live, think, and breathe? What keeps them up at 4am? I mean, all of us know we wake up at some time in the morning. Oh, can't go back to sleep. There's an issue. And in the world of business, there's always something that your audience is grappling with, and you need to understand what that is, how they articulate that, and then they're learning and buying behavior when they're trying to find an answer to it. So that's what I mean by research. And if you kind of turn it on its head, let's say you try to develop a marketing strategy without understanding, devoid of that knowledge of how your audience is behaving, you're just throwing money down the toilet because it could be irrelevant to them.

Brandi Starr [00:05:37]:
Okay, so let's, let's get a little tactical here, because I do know, you know, voice of customer, understanding the customer, putting the customer first. Those are things that we always hear, we always talk about. And when we get to the using another buzzword, when the rubber meets the road, there's a lot of companies that really struggle with how does that show up? Because some people, when they hear research, they start thinking we need to do focus groups and, you know, really get into true scientific research. Some people may mean listening to some gong calls. When you talk about companies needing to really do that research, how does that tactically show up? Like, what do you recommend that these marketing leaders are doing? Whether it's day to day, big project that helps give that research an insight that can then yield the relevance.

Liz Harr [00:06:35]:
Yeah. So the type of research that I'm talking about, where you're seeking to understand behavioral patterns and trends, is a big investment, something that firms normally do once every one to two years, unless the marketplace has some wild fluctuations and behavior is changing just as wildly. But this is, this is not something you do daily or monthly. This is, you know, kind of a 1 once per year, every couple years thing. And tactically, what I'm talking about is first and foremost identifying who are the types of clients you want to be building your pipeline with as you move ahead. Those, those clients represent where you want to be selling and where you want to be marketing. And so having structured conversations with them, it's best done one on one and with an unbiased third party. Because when you talk to your clients, they tend to already come to the table with the bias lens of, oh, I'm going to answer these questions in the, in the sense of working with you.

Liz Harr [00:07:45]:
And you don't really want that. You want to go more broadly because what we find often is that businesses have blind spots. And what I mean by that is we think we know our audience, we think we know how we got to the table, we think we know why we win and why we keep winning, but oftentimes we're just, those are just like myths and legends. And the research, if it's done correctly. And this is why an outside party can be so advantageous. When research is done correctly, you're understanding beyond what you think, what actually is driving your audience's decision. And so to even go one more level tactically, what kind of questions do you ask? Well, you know, a lot of times when people think research, they think customer satisfaction. I am not talking about that at all.

Liz Harr [00:08:37]:
I'm talking about questions that actually follow the journey. So I mentioned what keeps your clients up at night? Starting the conversation by saying, what are your chief organizational challenges? And secondly, what do you do when you're just looking to build a list of firms to potentially address that? And next you say, okay, now that we've assessed how you build the list, what criteria are important to you as you're whittling down that list from like 10 to 5 companies? And finally, what criteria tips the scale when you choose your ultimate provider? So you see, those kinds of questions are what I'm talking about, that get at the heart of behavior that in turn inform your marketing channels, your marketing messages, your marketing techniques, and so on.

Brandi Starr [00:09:30]:
That's really interesting that you bring that up because, you know, the times that I have been a part of customer research, the questions that have been asked have never been in that direction. And you know, I've never been the one driving the project like so it's not something that I have personally done, but I've been, you know, a stakeholder in those projects and quite often it is a lot more broad in understanding like who they are, how they think, what they're doing on a day to day. So it's not just customer satisfaction, it is really Persona research. But I really like how you tied that to the journey and the process that they're going to go through in order to actually choose you as a service provider. And really understanding that research.

Liz Harr [00:10:23]:
Yes.

Brandi Starr [00:10:24]:
And so the question that I have there in thinking about it, because I do know that I've seen debates around whether you limit that research to current customers or at least those that have engaged with you. So some people will, you know, bring in people they deals they lost. But then I've also heard the argument of pulling in people who are in your ICP, who have never actually worked with you and getting some of those perspectives as well. And I, I've heard the pros and cons and I'd love to hear your perspective on when choosing who you are engaging in that research. Like, is it better to stay focused on just where you've won? Is it better to go a bit broader? Like what, what's your perspective there?

Liz Harr [00:11:14]:
Yeah, that's such a great question. And you know, in a sense it depends on what you yourself are grappling with. So if things are going along pretty well and you've got good relationships with your current customer base and you have a great win rate, but you just have a sense that you need to uncover some blind spots and you know, check a few boxes here and there, then probably your current customer base is sufficient. But more often than not, companies have bigger challenges than that. Their win rate is not where they want it to be. They have a sense that they should have a higher market penetration than they currently do. Or sometimes they just don't understand why they're losing. They don't have any intel.

Liz Harr [00:12:00]:
So in those cases it's really excellent to get at that prospective customer community. And I'll tell you another great, another great audience is your influencer audience. So the folks who refer customers your way, prospective customers and influencers, even if they don't know you, can still provide an excellent sense of how these folks buy, how they make Decisions and criteria that are important to them. So it's always a great idea to include them if you have time and budget to do that.

Brandi Starr [00:12:41]:
Okay. And bringing up the influencers is an interesting topic because in the B2B space, sometimes it's a little more unknown. I mean, you know, there are some, like, there's, you know, analysts in a lot of communities and there are some obvious places where people are influencing decisions. But I would say for service providers, it's not always as clear. And so do you have any thoughts or advice on how businesses, you know, that are in the professional services B2B, how they identify who those influencers are if they're not known?

Liz Harr [00:13:24]:
Yeah, I mean, I think a great place to look is who does your customer base partner with? So the legal community, for example, law firms are always partnering and connecting with those in the financial services community or accountants. And so if your target, let's say your primary target is the legal community, getting in front of the financial services community, who influences how the legal attorneys or the legal market buys and aligns with service providers is a great thing. So looking at who your audience partners with, who do they co host events with, those are great cues about who their influencers might be.

Brandi Starr [00:14:12]:
Ah, I was gonna say that that is interesting because yeah, there are, if I think about different industries of service providers, there do seem to be some natural alignments in who's kind of playing in the same space space. And so in thinking, I, you know, I want to move forward from the research. And so understanding your customers drives relevance. And I think that part is, you know, that's kind of the self explanatory part in that it allows you to speak directly to them and relevance drives revenue. And I know that you, you know, said at the beginning that, you know, one of the opportunities is for us to spend less and yield more. And I see how that formula ties directly to that, but I'd love to hear you talk about it some more in terms of what you're seeing, you know, in business, the clients you work with, etc.

Liz Harr [00:15:11]:
Yeah, so let's say you're spending tens of thousands of dollars a month on paid advertising and that you feel good about it because everybody else is doing it and everybody's talking about it and you've feel like, hey, we need to be in the paid advertising game, but you're not yielding any results and you're paying a ton for it. That's a very expensive type of marketing, especially for services firms. When, when without understanding your audience, it's Easy to just sort of grab at the latest and greatest technique. Meanwhile, it may not bear any relevance to how your audience is learning or what they're looking for. Paid ads sometimes are very salesy in nature. And on the other hand, if you understand what your audience is looking for and you switch up the paid advertising so that instead of promoting some salesy aspect of you, you're actually promoting a piece of content that you just authored, that because you've done the research, you know, is directly related to the thing that's keeping your audience up at night, then all of a sudden you're yielding better results because you're much likely to bring in more attention and hopefully ultimately leads and new customers from that advertising. And when you spend or when you're, when your advertising is actually getting the right clicks, you're, you know, you're. It's all the more efficient.

Liz Harr [00:16:48]:
But I'll put, I'll give you a good example. Speaking of paid advertising, we're working with a client, this was a couple years ago, and they were literally spending tens of thousands of dollars a month on Google Ads. And that's all they were doing. All of their eggs were in that basket. And we found that their audience, first and foremost, wasn't learning that way. They weren't receptive to those kinds of salesy sorts of pitches. What they were really hungry for was a particular kind of expertise. And so we switched things up, dismantled the paid ads, wrote some content, and slashed their budget in half by just doing content marketing and bringing visibility to these executive guides that we were helping them write.

Liz Harr [00:17:41]:
And we were, we were pushing the guides out through LinkedIn where their audience was learning instead of just this nebulous space of paid advertising. And within six months, they started getting leads from that people downloading the guides, asking for conversations and bringing in business. That way, they spent less than half of what they were doing on paid ads.

Brandi Starr [00:18:09]:
That, as I say, that is a beautiful example. Anytime you can cut budgets by half. And I do think that you hit on a really key point in that as marketers, we kind of all have the same tools available to us. You know, it's kind of like there's the toolbox of tactics that we can tap into. And it does seem that there are certain things that everybody feels like, well, we got to be doing that, because everybody does that. And I think that point of the relevance makes a lot of sense in that, yes, we all have the same tools to play with, but depending on what we're offering and who we're trying to Talk to certain ones are going to be more effective at different points in the journey and for different people. So I love that you were able to help them hone in on the thing that works in order to really do that. And did you guys, in that example, did you do testing? Like, was it a clear we're going to turn this stuff off and, you know, move our efforts? Did you do a slow migration? I'm curious to hear more of how that played out once you recognize that that wasn't what they should be doing.

Liz Harr [00:19:25]:
Yeah, you know, in some cases, we are huge proponents of testing and doing things iteratively. In this case, they've been doing paid advertising for years and didn't get a single lead. So it was clear that they just needed to rip off the band aid, so to speak, and just change course. But, you know, oftentimes we will run smaller, a smaller campaign that one of our clients is doing in parallel with a new way of marketing, just to kind of test the waters and see what is being received. But I will tell you, when you do the research that we talked about earlier correctly, you run, there's much less risk, if you will, of dismantling the old and bringing in the new.

Brandi Starr [00:20:14]:
Yeah. And I definitely agree there in that. It's like if you understand your customer and how they learn what they need to know, you do reduce the risk as well as the cost or even where. Because I guess in some cases, if someone found that, you know, paid ads really does work, it may increase your cost, but it's going to also increase your yield. And so one question that I like to ask often is because I don't know what I don't know, is there anything that I haven't thought to ask you about in how companies make this shift to, you know, really do the research and understand the customer in order to yield more revenue? Is there anything I haven't thought to talk about or to ask about that you feel important to share?

Liz Harr [00:21:09]:
Well, I think that you kind of touched on this, but it probably bears a deeper dive. And that is all research is not equal. And so I would just want folks to leave understanding that everyone's going to say they do research. Everyone's going to say you should do research. You should be really careful about the type of research that you are doing. And if I were a small business and didn't have really extra budget to go out and look for a third party to help me with this, what I would do is start talking to my existing customers and I would ask them three Things I would ask them, how did you get to us? And do you remember the criteria that were important when you were looking for firms like us? Number two, when you were. When you built your list and somehow we got on there, what criteria did you use to whittle down the list? Who made it to the top three and why? And lastly, what tipped the scale in our favor? Why did you choose us? What criteria were important? What stuck out? And I would just start there. And that starts you dipping your toes, so to speak, into what this kind of research yields and what you can do with it.

Brandi Starr [00:22:29]:
Okay. And for those companies with the bigger budgets that can afford to bring in a third party, understanding that all research is not created equal, is there some criteria or things that you feel important that they should consider as they are seeking a third party?

Liz Harr [00:22:45]:
Yeah, I would look for someone. I would look for an agency that understands your space, not just understands research. I hear all the time, oh, we hired a research firm, but they were B2B, but they didn't understand professional services, or they were. They were primarily B2C, so they didn't even understand B2B. So you want to make sure that not only do they understand research and have honed their craft around that, but that they also understand your specific domain, your specific audience set. I think that's so important.

Brandi Starr [00:23:23]:
Okay, yeah. And that is a good point, especially if you're like me and has never had to be the one to hire a research firm. There is that, like, where do I start? What do I need to consider? Because even when you ask for referrals, someone may be a great referral, but if they don't know your space, it may not work out as well for you as the person who referred them to you. So that's a great point. And I love that you kind of gave both perspectives on, you know, if you've got budget versus you don't. Because I do know sometimes smaller companies will hear you know the value or understand the value of research, but be like, yeah, that'd be great if I had the budget. So that. That's a great place to start.

Brandi Starr [00:24:09]:
And I took some notes myself in terms of what those questions are. Well, Liz, talking about our challenges is just the first step. And nothing changes if nothing changes. And so in traditional therapy, the therapist gives the client some homework, but here at revenue rehab, we like to flip that on its head and ask you to give us some homework. And so for anyone who is listening, who recognizes that, you know, they don't have that formula down, they don't have the research and the relevance and they definitely need more revenue. What's your one thing? Where would you suggest they start after finishing this episode?

Liz Harr [00:24:51]:
I would just look at your metrics. Those are probably the truest measure of how you're performing. And I would look at things not, I mean revenue growth. That's all important. Those are the obvious ones. But I would take a look at some more granular ones. Trends such as your sales cycle, has it been lengthening or shrinking your win rate? What are the trends going on there? Your win loss intel? Why are you winning? Why are you losing? So I would look at some of those more granular metrics to tell you just how or to signal to you how prioritized should a reworking of your marketing marketing strategy be and whether you need to invest in research now or six months from now or a year from now. I think the metrics are going to tell you give you the answer.

Brandi Starr [00:25:49]:
Okay, I think that is a great place to start because you got to really understand where the problem is. Because my guess is where you're struggling can also impact the kinds of questions that you're asking in doing the research.

Liz Harr [00:26:03]:
That's right. And I guess it maybe to distill it even further, I would say if you find that the majority of the time you're competing on price, then that's the surest signal that you have lost true relevance to your target audience and you're kind of being seen as a commodity.

Brandi Starr [00:26:23]:
Yes, nobody wants to be the low cost leader. Well, Liz, I have enjoyed our discussion, but that's our time for today. But before we go, how can our audience connect with you and definitely do the shameless plug for Hinge marketing.

Liz Harr [00:26:41]:
Oh thank you. Absolutely. So I am on LinkedIn. It's Ehar H A R R so you can find me there. We can connect and have a conversation, but you can also go to hingemarketing.com in addition to my bio being there, I would suggest that people go to our resources page because there is a ton of free content on this very topic that we talked about today. And it's we hear all the time that it's a wealth of information. And very speaking of the buzzword earlier, it is very tactical. It's not this abstract stuff that you can't understand.

Liz Harr [00:27:21]:
It's very tactical and practical. So go to the resources page and check us out.

Brandi Starr [00:27:26]:
Awesome. Well, we will make sure to link to your LinkedIn as well as Hinge Marketing. So wherever you are listening or watching this podcast, check the show notes so that you can connect with Liz. Well, Liz, thanks again so, so much for joining me. I have enjoyed the discussion.

Liz Harr [00:27:43]:
It was great to be here. Brandi, thank you.

Brandi Starr [00:27:46]:
Awesome. And thanks, everyone, for joining us. I hope you have enjoyed my discussion with Liz. I can't believe we're at the end. Until next time. Bye. Bye.