The World Doesn’t Need Your Company. It Needs Movements That Matter. #ChangeMyMind

Brandi Starr [00:00:58]:
Hello and welcome to another episode of Revenue Rehab. I'm your host Brandi Starr and we have another amazing episode for you today. So let's get real. No one is waking up thinking I need to buy from your company today. But they will wake up driven by a cause, a belief or a movement that pulls them in.

Brandi Starr [00:00:58]:
That's what today's conversation isn't about, selling more. It's about building something bigger. Something people rally behind, not just buy from. My guest Karthi Ratnam is a category design expert who doesn't just launch products. She architects industries. While others chase trends, she chase markets that redefine the game. So here's the question, is your company just another player or are you leading a movement that actually matters? Let's dive in. So I'm really thrilled to be joined by Karthi.

Brandi Starr [00:01:36]:
Her mission is simple. She creates categories that matter. Categories that don't just serve the market, but change them. Karthi doesn't believe in following the trends, she believes in setting them. And throughout her career she has worked with diverse industries including software, financial services, mobile, telephony and more. From helping startups secure millions in funding to building multi million dollar revenue streams, she has seen how businesses can thrive when they create something truly unique. Today, Karthi is the co founder at Audience Haus where they are redefining how communities are built and how revenue is created. Karthi, welcome to Revenue Rehab.

Brandi Starr [00:02:21]:
Your session begins now.

Karthi Ratnam [00:02:25]:
Hey Brandi, how are you doing?

Brandi Starr [00:02:27]:
I am well. I am excited to talk to you today.

Karthi Ratnam [00:02:32]:
Well, I might be blushing a little bit.

Brandi Starr [00:02:35]:
Hey, I was gonna say it tells you your bio is impressive when you hear people. I was really psyched about you and it makes you blush. And so as we get in, our industry loves its fancy jargon. But let's be real, some of these buzzwords are just fluff and they can hold us back more than they can help. So tell me what overused buzzword you'd love to erase from existence?

Karthi Ratnam [00:03:05]:
So this is not a buzzword by any means but it's a pet peeve of mine. I really don't like the title revenue marketer because I believe all marketing is in service of revenue. So there shouldn't be a separate title that exists as revenue Marketer.

Brandi Starr [00:03:21]:
I am with you. I have always been really confused by that title, and I have seen it come to mean non brand marketer. As if those that. Yes, I was going to say as if those that are in brand are not focused on driving revenue. So I support that. I, you know, sorry to all the revenue marketers out there, but you are just marketers.

Karthi Ratnam [00:03:49]:
Yeah, yeah.

Brandi Starr [00:03:51]:
Gonna put that in the box. Because if you are a marketer, it is your goal to drive revenue. So I am totally with you.

Karthi Ratnam [00:03:59]:
Great.

Brandi Starr [00:04:00]:
All right, so now that we've gotten that off our chest, let's transition into our top topic, because this issue impacts many companies. Many companies are trying to create a category, and it's often misunderstood or overlooked. And so what's the most damaging myth about category design that's holding companies back?

Karthi Ratnam [00:04:24]:
Well, I think the biggest myth is that it's super expensive to create a category, and it's really hard to have it realize potential in the short and medium term. That's the biggest myth that companies face right now. It's never the money that's holding you back. It's always the vision and the gumption to go do something and to be disrupted. But people kind of hide behind the money because it's the risk factor of the unknown. Right. It's like. And to be morbid a little bit, and everybody wants to go to heaven, you know, but nobody wants to die to get there.

Karthi Ratnam [00:05:01]:
If you.

Brandi Starr [00:05:02]:
Yeah. Before.

Karthi Ratnam [00:05:05]:
Right. So category design is a little bit like that. Everybody wants to build a category. Everybody wants to be a category king or a queen, but nobody wants to take the risk to get there. Right. They don't want to disrupt the status quo. Like people are. We have.

Karthi Ratnam [00:05:22]:
Humans are fundamentally psychologically wired to have a little bit of herd mentality. Like, we like to follow the trends. Because there was a saying, and I'm sure from coming from the tech industry, you know this. You don't get fired for buying IBM or SAP because it's IBM and SAP. How it's not about it can never be considered a bad decision. So you don't get fired for following like a playbook that. An established one. Whereas a category narrative is where you don't have a playbook.

Karthi Ratnam [00:05:51]:
You kind of had to figure your way through it because you are writing the rules of the game and you can get fired for that.

Brandi Starr [00:06:00]:
Yeah. And that is such a great point because, you know, there is. There is a level of comfort in what has been tried and true. And I know as a consultant, I'd say the question that I get asked the most common question, overwhelmingly consistent is well, what are you seeing other people do?

Karthi Ratnam [00:06:21]:
Exactly.

Brandi Starr [00:06:22]:
And, or what's the best practice?

Karthi Ratnam [00:06:24]:
What's. Yeah, what's working in the market right now?

Brandi Starr [00:06:27]:
Yeah, and I mean, not that those things, like, not that understanding what others are doing or what others are seeing working isn't valuable because we can definitely learn from that and there's things we can pull from that. But I do agree that there is a huge risk in trying to create a category. And so what is the wrong way to approach this problem and what's the smart alternative?

Karthi Ratnam [00:06:54]:
So the wrong way to do it right, is to be very myopic about it, to think extremely short term in that, to assume that A, because you're creating a category, you're going to win, like really, really fast, you're going to see wins, but that exponential growth takes a little bit of time. Right. And then the second part is. And Uber and stuff also made this mistake. Even Netflix and stuff. Just because you created the category and wrote the rules does not mean you cannot be challenged or disrupted.

Brandi Starr [00:07:34]:
Yeah, I think that is a great example. I think thinking about A, B, 2C example, Netflix is another one that has really done that. You know, I still remember when Netflix came in the mail and you know, I think I still have a couple Netflix CDs that I never return. And you know, now they are creating shows and movies that are surpassing some of the, you know, big production companies. And so that, you know, that's, that's one great example of how you can continue to innovate in a category even after you've established it.

Karthi Ratnam [00:08:15]:
Yeah, but the, here's the twist though. If you go outside of the US like I'm from India, for example, Netflix isn't as popular as Disney plus.

Brandi Starr [00:08:26]:
Ah.

Karthi Ratnam [00:08:28]:
And Uber made the same mistake in South Asia where they were just like they were disrupt. They came into the market but they couldn't survive and grab and other companies like took over and disrupted them because they knew the rules. They designed the rules for the US market, but they did not understand the localization concepts of that category within other markets, which the local players understood much better than an Uber or a Netflix like Disney plus is heaps more popular like in India for example, than Netflix.

Brandi Starr [00:08:59]:
Okay, and I'll get back to that globalization in just a minute. But first I want to level set a little bit. Can you help us to understand what's the difference between building a strong brand versus building a true movement? Because I know from reading your LinkedIn and prepping that's something you talk about a lot, and it's not always clear what the difference is.

Karthi Ratnam [00:09:24]:
Yeah. So they. They become a little bit synonymous, right? In that sometimes, like Apple, for example, built a movement before they built a brand. And now we talk about the brand, we don't so much talk about the cult following that Apple had, which was what propelled the brand. Right. Which is why, going back to original buzzword thing, brand is also revenue. So. But what movement builders do really well is they put the category and the problem before the brand.

Karthi Ratnam [00:09:55]:
So they don't so much evangelize the brand as in the problem that they're solving and building a movement around that. So they don't say Apple solves this problem. Like, if you look at some of the origin stories of Apple or any brand, right? Like, and movement building, like, it goes back in history, like, to Egypt. And, like, it started with cults, actually, and humans wanting to rally around, like, a villain and a hero and like a clear, like, path to resurrection. It actually started very much with religious beliefs. So humans. And if you read Homo sapiens, humans are the only kind of species on the planet that believe in imagined realities and can use imagined realities to scale. And what I mean by that is that was a really nice example in the book.

Karthi Ratnam [00:10:49]:
So if a monkey had a hundred bananas, and if you went up to the monkey and told it, if you give 99 of these bananas away, you'd go to heaven. The monkey is not going to part with bananas. But if you tell a human that they're more than likely to part with the banana because we believe in that imagined reality. And if you tap into that imagined reality, you can also organize them at scale. For example, if you contribute to the church or a good cause, organize globally. If there's a problem, like, let's say there's a problem with the church, or like the church is organizing a fun drive because people were affected by wildfires, like, let's say the LA wildfires. Some church got involved and wanted to organize a donation drive. People all over the world will organize at scale to make sure that happens.

Karthi Ratnam [00:11:49]:
That's our ability to organize at scale. And that's the psychology you want to tap into when you're building a movement.

Brandi Starr [00:11:56]:
Okay. And so here's where I would almost challenge this thought process is not every company can build a new category. You know, it's like. And I think there was a phase, especially in tech, where you have the magic quadrants and all the different things where everybody was trying to. This is new and this is different. And there was so much focus on category creation that it really kind of got skews. And so how do you know when you should try and when you should try to just dominate a movement that someone else built?

Karthi Ratnam [00:12:41]:
So, two things. I agree with you. Not everyone should create a category. Like, please don't, in fact, discourage you from doing that. Please don't. Right, so that's 1, 2. So this is where the principles of movement building comes into play. To answer the second part of your question is who should build a category? Just think about some of the greatest movements that have lasted, right? Whether it's like, whether it was, you know, the Martin Luther King movement or like Christianity as a movement or democracy, they all kind of have something in common.

Karthi Ratnam [00:13:22]:
Whether it was the independence movement in India and, like, Asia or like what happened in South Africa, it hinged on a person who was dynamic and charismatic enough to have people rally behind them for a cause.

Brandi Starr [00:13:39]:
Okay?

Karthi Ratnam [00:13:40]:
So if you're going to build a category, really, I would say it depends on the founder and the type of founder you have, whether that person is able to have the charisma and the leadership status to be able to quote, unquote, command a following and rally people to a cause.

Brandi Starr [00:14:06]:
Okay?

Karthi Ratnam [00:14:06]:
Whether that's good or bad, whether that's good or bad. Like, Elon Musk is able to do it, and we can all argue whether, you know, it doesn't matter which way you kind of swing, but he's charismatic enough to be able to do it. MAGA is a movement. It hinges on a person. Like, it hinges on Donald Trump, right? Christianity for is a belief system, but it's also a movement, and it revolves around Christ.

Brandi Starr [00:14:37]:
So. So leaning into that fact that movements require belief, thinking about, especially in the B2B space. Excuse me, how do you get customers and even competitors to buy into that new way of thinking? Because when you talk about religion, you talk about politics, you talk about family, there's some of those things that, you know, even, like, rallying around, like, you know, a traumatic event or disaster, there is something there that pulls on the heartstrings. And it makes it easy for us to determine whether this thing or this person or this cause ties to my belief system. And so that's how you understand, like, agree or disagree. You talked about Elon Musk and Donald Trump. All of those, you know, those are true. Whether you believe or not, if it goes with your belief system, then you buy in.

Brandi Starr [00:15:36]:
How do we get. Because, you know, and thinking about a B2B space, you just you don't have that same personal connection. So how are businesses able to create a movement in that same impactful way?

Karthi Ratnam [00:15:51]:
So I would actually brandi disagree that we don't have a personal connection purely because all of us, when we come to do our jobs, Whether it's in B2B tech or wherever, we want to be seen as problem solvers. We want to be seen as solving problems for the company and putting the best interest of the company, regardless of how we're wired. So because of that, it does become inherently personal to us because we want to be solving this problem for companies. Right. We want to be seen as problem solvers. So now with that in mind, if you think about that, so you asked the two part question, one is the competitors and one is the customer. I'm going to park the competitor for a moment and just talk about the customers. Right.

Karthi Ratnam [00:16:38]:
So the customers know they have a pain. We all know it. Like for example, before Uber came, we all hated the taxi system. We didn't have an alternative. So we'd stand on the road and try to hail one. Right. It frustrated us. We never knew at what time we would get the taxi and what time we would get to the place that we needed to go.

Karthi Ratnam [00:17:00]:
It always frustrated us. But we didn't have an alternative. So we didn't. We didn't. There wasn't really much to complain about. Right. But when you, when somebody comes to you with an alternative that's measurable and presses in on your pain point, what happens is almost movements categories, in my opinion. And movements are built bottom up.

Karthi Ratnam [00:17:23]:
What I mean by that is the market, eventually it, the market propels you and then you, then your competitors follow you. Once you create enough momentum and inertia in the market, the competitors follow you. Right. But what you have to do is press in on that pain that the customers have and show them a different way in which that it can be solved. Not a better way, a different way.

Brandi Starr [00:17:53]:
Okay, Yeah. I would equate that to the difference between. A better way is improving the taxi system. A different way is being able to.

Karthi Ratnam [00:18:03]:
Call your driver, like, whatever. But a different way is Uber like an app on a smartphone, which tells you how late it is, what time it'll come to pick you up. That was the biggest unlock, Right. Psychologically is you knowing that your car is four minutes away. The problem we had before that was us never knowing where the taxi is and when.

Brandi Starr [00:18:29]:
Yeah. You didn't know where it was, how long it would take you to get one, what it would cost.

Karthi Ratnam [00:18:33]:
You're OK to be late as long as you know how late you're going to be.

Brandi Starr [00:18:38]:
Yeah, I know. My other big thing, why I really jumped on the rideshare bandwagon was the fact that I knew up front how much it would cost. Even if it was off by a little bit. Getting in a taxi, you never knew was it going to be 10 bucks or 60 bucks. Like, you know, I mean there was, there was some weird math based on what it had on the window. But you know, it's like your mobile.

Karthi Ratnam [00:19:01]:
Phone bill where you have all these add ons that you don't know where they came from but you pay them anyway.

Brandi Starr [00:19:08]:
Yes. But you know, I won't get on my taxi tangent because we have solved that. And so I want to shift a little bit to. For the businesses who are hearing what you're saying, you know, whether it's founders, marketers, and they recognize that what they really are trying to do is build a movement and not just sell what they sell, where do they start? Like how if you have that light bulb go off, what does that look like in terms of actually moving in that direction?

Karthi Ratnam [00:19:43]:
So it starts with the founder, right? It hinges on the founder. And the reason I say that it could hinge on other people. Right. But people leave companies and the problem with that is if you become the face of the brand and you leave the company or the movement, the movement will follow you. And if your company X and you invested in building the movement, right. And you leave the brand, equity, social equity of the company goes with that person. Right. So it really hinges on the founder.

Karthi Ratnam [00:20:23]:
And so how it starts is with the founder saying I don't want to get 5% of an existing. Like that's not exciting for me, I want it. Most of them are very idealistic and they say, I want to change the world, I want to challenge the status quo. I want to show people a different way to do things. When you have that, that's when you know you're ready to build a movement.

Brandi Starr [00:20:52]:
Okay. And for. So I guess the question that I have is really, because that sounds like such a narrow portion of the population.

Karthi Ratnam [00:21:07]:
It's a very narrow portion of the population.

Brandi Starr [00:21:09]:
Okay. And so for those people who are in companies and they recognize that that isn't necessarily the personality of the founder or it's a larger organization where it's less about the founder and more about a CEO, are there lessons that they can take away from your perspective around building a movement?

Karthi Ratnam [00:21:37]:
Yeah. So for example, Apple, Microsoft, these are all really Good examples of companies where the founder was so dynamic and they built like multi billion dollar companies and they built movements around their, you know, their point of view. But now those founders are no longer part of the company. But still the market capitalization of both of those companies has increased if not done better than when they were with the original founders. Right. Because there comes an inflection point, especially in large companies where it's, it moves beyond somebody who's idealistic to somebody who can actually scale and build. Most idealistic founders, and I think you can relate, because at least I sense that you're idealistic too, is that our idealism gets in the way of reality. But after a certain point the reality is required to scale the business that comes in inflection point where the reality is so required.

Karthi Ratnam [00:22:46]:
Like what are your distribution channels? Like how are you managing your teams, processes. Like all of that stuff comes in all the quote unquote playbooks actually do matter then.

Brandi Starr [00:22:58]:
Right.

Karthi Ratnam [00:22:59]:
But when you're in that idealistic phase of oh my God, follow me, because I look at the world differently and you know, I want to, you know, make humans an interplanetary species right now that's at a very idealistic phase. But eventually, let's say we get there and you want to start colonizing Mars, then you need a professional CEO to solve the day to day execution problems that come with wanting to be a colony on Mars.

Brandi Starr [00:23:29]:
I follow now. So what you're saying is that dynamic person personality is what is going to create that air quotes cult like following. But once you're able to rally people, that is where you need to have more of that, you know, process, operationalize, turn it into a business. And I do think this just from talking to a lot of CMOs who have been in companies where they get to that point where the founder doesn't quite know that they're at that inflection point. And that seems to be a very common challenge of, you know, it's kind of like the what got you here won't get you there. And like what do you say if there's founders listening, what do you say to them to get them to understand that point?

Karthi Ratnam [00:24:24]:
So, so that requires serious levels of self awareness, right? Which is like when you're. And it's funny because Jared and I, even at Audience House, we're super in the nascent stage of the company. We already have started talking about when we need to get out of the way and just fall back to just being a strategist and not the day to day operational stuff. Right. So that, that's a mindset where you have to realize the greater potential of the. You're holding back the greater potential of the company. So that. It's a very tough question for me to answer because I've seen chaos ensuing by founders, idealistic founders who stay for too long and want to get involved as much as they used to be and they can't because that company has grown beyond that point.

Karthi Ratnam [00:25:20]:
Right. Because Apple had a cult following originally because it was like pitted for people who are different. Right. And the beauty of that campaign was, and I say this all the time, it was inclusive as well as exclusive. And what I mean by that is, was exclusive in that it said it's only for people who are different. It's inclusive because we all think we're different.

Brandi Starr [00:25:48]:
Right? Yeah.

Karthi Ratnam [00:25:53]:
Yeah. But what happens is, and this is why sometimes you'll see companies kind of forcing the original founder out and dropping them to being an evangelist because they're really good at rallying for the cause, but they're no longer good at operationalizing and executing. And one of the core problems with Go to Market, as you know, I'm just, I used to work at GT Partners before. This is evangelizing this point of view that it's actually the CEO who owns Go to Market.

Brandi Starr [00:26:21]:
Yeah.

Karthi Ratnam [00:26:21]:
And more often than not, an idealistic founder cannot own that because you're too idealistic to play by the rules and follow a playbook and put processes in place and have a methodology that's replicatable.

Brandi Starr [00:26:35]:
Yeah. And I've seen turnover at the leadership level be a very common indicator that, you know, the company has reached that inflection point. But the founder doesn't have that self awareness because that becomes one of those things where you have these Go to market leaders who are very skilled and ready, willing and able to do their part to take the company to the next level. And the founder becomes the blocker there. And they have to, you know, just kind of come to terms with the fact that that's not something that they can change and they will move on. You know, I've definitely seen a number of horror stories related to that aspect.

Karthi Ratnam [00:27:19]:
Yeah, you see this in politics too actually, Brandi, just to just so you can double click. This is not a business only problem. If you have a con, if you have a wartime president. Right. And they're able to win the war, shall we say. Right. More often than not, the leader that wins the war is not the leader who can bring about peace.

Brandi Starr [00:27:44]:
Yeah. They are different. I mean. Yeah, you don't even. There's a lot there. I, you know, I definitely won't go down the rabbit hole of American politics. But you are right in that there is a parallel there. And I do think for businesses and even, you know, thinking about the individuals in what their role is within an organization, understanding what kind of insert title here you are makes all the difference.

Brandi Starr [00:28:16]:
Because I've seen CMOs who are turnaround CMOs like that's their strength. They go into companies where marketing is failing, whatever failing is defined as. They get in there two, three years, get it turned around and once things are moving smoothly, they are on to the next thing. Like there is no intent to stay long term. And you know, really this conversation makes me think about because it's such a small population that would be able to build a movement as a category. I'm always thinking about how do we translate that more into how what people can take away from this. And it really to me aligns to what kind of CMO VP of marketing CRO is it that you want to be. Because in some cases creating that movement could be an internal ideology of how revenue is run or how the company goes to market.

Brandi Starr [00:29:18]:
And so there are places where you can lean into this concept of building a movement even if that movement is not for the company. Building a category, is that a fair takeaway?

Karthi Ratnam [00:29:32]:
It is, but I can add on to this. Is that okay? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So when you think about like I used to get and I'm just going to use myself as an example because it's the easiest thing that I can do. I used to get really frustrated in jobs like after two years. Right. It took me serious level of self awareness to realize I'm a fixer. Like I like to fix problems.

Karthi Ratnam [00:29:58]:
And once the problem goes away, it's not as interesting anymore. It's not as challenging anymore for me. Right. So when you speak that, when you translate, what does that mean in terms of movement marketing and the conversation we're having today? There are some types of leaders who have the entrepreneurial spirit where they don't. And this is like a school of thought where they don't kind of go to market, but they create the market or bring the market to them. And there are other types of leaders who go to market. Right. And both types are required.

Karthi Ratnam [00:30:33]:
It just depends on which stage of the company you're in and what you're trying to do. So some are creators, like they inherently just consistently need to be creating. Some are consolidators. So the, the challenge for CEOs who are creators is. And Steve Jobs, I think, spoke about this at length at one of the Apple conferences, is that when he came back to Apple, they had hundreds of products and he had to scale it down. And this consolidation problem lots of companies have, right, because when you're an innovator, you want. You're constantly chasing that new thing, that blood rush. Like, it's a blood rush.

Karthi Ratnam [00:31:19]:
It's an adrenaline rush that you have because you're building something new. It's exciting, right? But at some point, you gotta stop and consolidate with the existing products. That. So there are two different mindsets there in that one is ideological, the other one is realistic. But you need both. It just depends on which stage and how you want to structure your company. And look, the reality is some companies have done great without building a category by being in second or like. Or even coming third and then like doing the go to market so well that they become the market leader, whereas the.

Karthi Ratnam [00:32:02]:
The actual creator of the category is stuck in their way of, you know, the ideological way. The part of category design, which is fascinating, right, is when you design the category, you're also designing the rules, right? So that when a competitor comes in place in your space, you're. They're playing by your rules, but if you're not careful, the competitor can change the rules of the game and suddenly you're following their rules, right?

Brandi Starr [00:32:34]:
Yeah. And it is to me that, like, when you are building or creating a category that is one of those, you know, it's almost like running a race. Yeah, it's like you started the race ahead, but you've always gotta, you know, get a little look over your shoulder because, you know, you don't know how close they are to surpassing you. And very similar to watching the Olympics. You know, we've seen so many track and field where there's one that's ahead or even in horse racing, there's one that is like, clearly ahead. And then out of nowhere, you know, that other runner or horse hits the, you know, basically hits their booster button and then they come out of nowhere and you're like, what just happened? And that's so easy in business.

Karthi Ratnam [00:33:21]:
So just leading into your Olympics narrative, unless you can crack it so well that just the very thought of running with you scares the competitors. And Usain Bolt is a really good example of that in that he said he trained for six years to be able to run for 10 seconds, right? So because everybody knows he can run under 10 seconds. Everybody. It's almost like the competition is even too Scared to try because they know they could never be.

Brandi Starr [00:33:52]:
So before we run out of time, I want to get back to a point you made earlier around globalization, because I think that, that the path that you started down, whether you are creating a movement or just building a business, I think you were hitting on some really good points about US Companies who aim to go global and don't necessarily fully understand the rules or what works in that country. And so I'd love to hear you go a little bit deeper on that as well.

Karthi Ratnam [00:34:27]:
Sure. So if you take so Netflix, for example. Right. So it's interesting because when they started CEO, the founder already knew that he wanted it to be an online streaming platform. Right. But one of the things he said when I was listening to his interview was he didn't even tell his investors that because they just wouldn't understand. It was too early, too soon. He was the only person who had the idea.

Karthi Ratnam [00:34:55]:
So he had the whole DVD rental idea. So he kind of trained people as like a stop gap to a different type of behavior before he could launch online streaming. And then from online streaming evolved binge watching, where Netflix, you know, dropped one series in one day, all the episodes in one day. It was like Christmas. And we would all watch it. And it was amazing, right? Because if before that people had to sit and wait for it to come on a particular time or record it in their devices or whatever. Right? So cool. Now here's the.

Karthi Ratnam [00:35:32]:
Here's why this story is important. In India, there's a massive culture of watching soap operas, like mega serials, as they call it, right? And it goes on key TV channels and women have their days blocked in the evenings to watch one mega serial after another for like two to three hours. So they cook. Plan ahead. It's a whole culture. It's not one person doing it. It's a whole culture. Like neighborhoods do this together, like any.

Karthi Ratnam [00:36:06]:
There's enough literature written about it in papers and jokes made about it where women actually block their time, cook ahead, make sure the kids are taken care of it, everything, so that they can spend these three hours catching up on every single mega serial episode for the whole week. So on Monday, it's the same thing on Tuesday. It was a practice. It was like every single stay at home mom in India did this to a large extent. It was a culture and it was, it was a habit, right? So Netflix coming and one not giving them a way to watch these serials in that platform was a big drawback for Indians because we, we want to. Where's my cereal? Like I still have to watch TV to get that cereal. Right, Right. And here's the flip side of it.

Karthi Ratnam [00:36:57]:
We're also massive cricket fans. We love cricket games. We love our, like premier leagues and all that stuff where cricket matches happen. Anytime a cricket match is going on, if India is playing anybody or there's interstate matches going on now with like IPL and stuff like that, the TVs are on that for the whole day. And cricket matches usually last like eight hours. And Netflix did not support any of that. Right now here's what Disney did, which was really interesting. They partnered with the local TV channels and they said, you know what, we'll stream your mega serials on Disney plus.

Karthi Ratnam [00:37:36]:
We'll also live stream the cricket matches on Disney plus and you can watch it on demand.

Brandi Starr [00:37:45]:
Okay. So they enhanced the behaviors and the culture that was already happening.

Karthi Ratnam [00:37:52]:
Whereas Netflix is now trying to sort of adopt it. Whether, you know, even here locally they're showing like game night and stuff like that. And they're, you know, it's starting to happen. Disney took it at a scale in India. It like all the IPL matches were streamed. Like the mega series that women loved, they were streamed. And you could get it on demand, so. And you could watch the past episodes which you couldn't before.

Brandi Starr [00:38:18]:
Yeah. And that is, you know, I think there's a lot that any of us who are even considering moving into a region of the world that we are not familiar, it just really makes clear that it is not a copy paste. And I think I see so many companies who, other than accounting for local laws and what's required, those are the only considerations that are given less around do we need to modify the products, the offering, the messaging, all those sorts of things. Okay, so we've talked about the problem. Now it's time to fix it. Welcome to the lightning round. So.

Karthi Ratnam [00:39:08]:
Practice this.

Brandi Starr [00:39:09]:
Yes. I was gonna say fast answers only.

Karthi Ratnam [00:39:12]:
Okay.

Brandi Starr [00:39:13]:
At the end of Family Feud where, you know, you gotta give the answer. So let's make sure our listeners leave with actions they can take right now to start making an impact. And if someone sets out, you know, if. So I'll start with the first one. Finish this sentence. If your company is trying to create a category, the first thing you should.

Karthi Ratnam [00:39:40]:
Do is have the founders that evangelizing your point of view.

Brandi Starr [00:39:46]:
What's one red flag that signals a company has a category problem but may not realize it yet?

Karthi Ratnam [00:39:54]:
Lack of alignment on the point of view.

Brandi Starr [00:39:56]:
Okay. What's the most common mistake? When people make. What's the most common mistake people make when trying to fix this one, become emotional. What's the fastest action someone can take today to make progress?

Karthi Ratnam [00:40:13]:
The first step.

Brandi Starr [00:40:15]:
All right, good answer, good answer. I'm gonna start adopting Steve Harvey's. Good answer.

Karthi Ratnam [00:40:21]:
I think you did a very good job.

Brandi Starr [00:40:24]:
All right, well, every session ends with a good plan for progress, and so I definitely appreciate you giving us that. So, Karthi, tell me, where can our audience find you if they want to continue the conversation?

Karthi Ratnam [00:40:37]:
So I'm on LinkedIn and I'm on the Karthi Ratnam so they can find me.

Brandi Starr [00:40:41]:
Perfect. Well, we will make sure to link to your LinkedIn. So wherever you are listening or watching this podcast, make sure to check the show notes. Well, thank you so much for joining me. I feel like we have covered so much in one episode from, you know, I've learned about TV soap operas in India. We've talked a little religion, politics, category creation. I always love these discussions that you just never know where they're going to go. But I'm always learning something.

Brandi Starr [00:41:11]:
So thank you so much.

Karthi Ratnam [00:41:13]:
Thanks so much, Brandi. Thank you for having me.

Brandi Starr [00:41:15]:
Awesome. Well, thanks everyone for joining me. I appreciate you tuning in. I have hope you have enjoyed my conversation with Karthi. I can't believe we're at the end. Until next time.

Karthi Ratnam [00:41:26]:
Bye.

Brandi Starr [00:41:26]:
Bye. Bye.