Champion Tracking: Unearthing Hidden Pipelines in B2B Marketing

Intro VO  00:05

Welcome to revenue rehab, your one stop destination for collective solutions to the biggest challenges faced by marketing leaders today. Now head on over to the couch, make yourself comfortable and get ready to change the way you approach revenue. Leading your recovery is modern marketer, author, speaker and Chief Operating Officer at Tegrita Brandi Starr

Brandi Starr  00:34

Hello Hello Hello and welcome to another episode of revenue rehab. I am your host Brandi Starr and we have another amazing episode for you today. I am joined by Braxton Carr Braxton is the director of revenue enablement at user gems. He is passionate about building enablement programs that feature coaching at the center and reflect the skills and growth opportunities of reps on the team. Before leading enablement departments Braxton cut his teeth as a mid market and enterprise A E selling in the MAR tech space. When not in the office. You can find him downhill skiing in the winters and scuba diving in the summers. Welcome to revenue rehab Brexton your session begins now.

Braxton Carr  01:21

Brandi, thank you for having me. It's an honor. Super, super excited to get into it.

Brandi Starr  01:25

As I say, yeah, very exciting. And as I say, I see you're a little bit of a thrill seeker with the downhill skiing and scuba diving.

Braxton Carr  01:33

Yeah, I grew up in the French Alps. So like everybody was skiing quite a bit. I don't think I really had much of a choice. Like that area of France is also right off the Mediterranean, so they were hobbies I picked up super early.

Brandi Starr  01:46

Yeah, I took one scuba lesson at the YMCA in a 12 foot pool. And it took all about 30 minutes for me to recognize that that was not my calling a hobby for me. I quickly got out and was like thanks. But I'm gonna go now.

Braxton Carr  02:03

It's not for everyone. I mean, especially when you're underwater, all of a sudden you're like, Wait a second. This isn't a universe that I'm used to. I'm not not sure about this.

Brandi Starr  02:11

Yes, I am not a little mermaid. But before we jump into our topic, I like the break the ice with a little Bullseye moments that I call buzzword. banishment. So tell me what industry buzzword would you like to get rid of forever?

Braxton Carr  02:31

Alright, a few. You know, one that comes to mind that that I've been thinking about recently. operationalize. Have you heard that term like being thrown around recently?

Brandi Starr  02:40

Yes, I use it quite often.

Braxton Carr  02:43

Let's get into my beef with it, then not I'm happy to do it for you. And here's my thing with operationalised. To me, I think when people say operationalize, we kind of gloss over the conversation that needs to be had. I'll give you an example. Let's say you work on a project and you finished building something out. And someone's like, I was like going here, like, oh, like, I just got to operationalize it. Generally what happens are people just like, cool, let's move on. But the truth is like, if you've got to operationalize it, chances are like what you built is not exactly what you thought it was going to be. That's fine. That's totally okay. So let's have a chat about like, what it is now, and how we can derive value from the feedback loop. I think when people use operationalize what ends up happening is we don't talk about how to derive value from it, and we kind of throw them to the wolves. So in a way, I think operationalize takes away from an important conversation that should be had around how we're going to derive value from whatever you're working on.

Brandi Starr  03:38

Okay, so I feel a little better, because I can at least say I use the word correctly. As I say, my, my title is, you know, Chief Operating Officer and I own operations. So I'm feeling a little more confident. But no, I agree in that, to me, operationalizing, something is putting process and rigor behind it to make it repetitive. And as much as I hate the buzzword, scalable, but also scalable. And you're right, that does require conversations around what worked, what didn't, you know, what do you wish you had done? You know, what, you know, would you have not done like, all those sorts of things, so that in order to make it replicable, that, you know, you've got that like, really refined, like, this is the way we do this better. So I'm with you. And we will refrain at least for the next 30 minutes or so from using the term operationalize, which this one might be hard for me, so you know, I have to slap myself on the wrist if I, if I slip that one in there.

Braxton Carr  04:39

Well, you know, it's interesting, because I do think there is like a right and a wrong way to use it. Like in your role and even in my role, the awkward. I can't even say the operate, the operationalization of it is already built in. Right like you had a goal in mind. You saw a gap, and you built a process or a system to solve that gap. So there's no question about how it's going to be operationalized. Like that was already part of the plan. So if someone asks you like, how's it going? And you're like, Oh, I gotta figure out how to operationalize. It's like saying, yeah, like I built this car doesn't have an engine, but like, I built this car, so I never want to gloss over. Okay, well, let's figure out like, how we're gonna put an engine in there and actually make this thing run.

Brandi Starr  05:20

Yeah, no, I am with you. But now that we've gotten that off our chest, tell me what brings you to revenue rehab today?

Braxton Carr  05:28

Yeah. Well, obviously from the buyer that you said passionate about, like enabling teams to do their best. And part of that is I think, serving up teams like the best potential opportunities to close, you want to make sales as easy as possible. So excited to talk a bit about sort of like champion tracking how you can make it easier for your revenue teams and delve into that strategy.

Brandi Starr  05:51

Awesome. And I believe in setting intentions, it gives us focus, it gives us purpose, and most importantly, it gives our audience an expectation of what they'll get from our conversation today. So tell me what is your best expectation for our chat.

Braxton Carr  06:08

My best expectation, my hope is that people listening to this will leave with a strategy or an idea in place of how to bring the lowest hanging fruit leads to their teams, and hopefully convert them at a higher rate.

Brandi Starr  06:22

Okay. So as we jump in, I always like to start with level setting on some definitions, because especially in our industry, the same words can mean different things to different people. And so I want to talk about champion tracking. Because prior to being introduced to user gems, I had not heard that term, use the way that you use it. So if you can give me your definition of what champion tracking is,

Braxton Carr  06:52

yeah, in great question. I think really, it boils down to this. It's just people that are familiar with your your product or brand. And usually the easiest way to achieve that familiarity are people that have either like purchased the tool themselves or used the tool, or had some exposure to it. Like a really easy example to think of actually, this podcast is a great example. If people have not heard of revenue rehab, and you reach out to them, they might be like, Ah, I don't know, I got a lot going on. And we whatever excuse in the book, I already love this podcast. If you were to reach out to me, again, two months, and I think I practically want to do this again. Of course, I want to do it again, this was a great time, right? So it's a much easier clothes for you. So when you think about champion tracking, and then you scale that out to the amount of people that are exposed to companies tools, it makes total sense why you would keep tabs on those people. So that's what we think of when we think of champions.

Brandi Starr  07:42

Okay, and so is it at its core, keeping up with people that you know, already know, like, trust you and where they're moving in their careers. So is it just tracking them as they move to other companies?

Braxton Carr  07:56

Yeah, so that's a big part of it. Right? That's, that's kind of challenge. One challenge, too, is now that that has occurred? How do I ensure that those leads are being actioned consistently, I think a lot of what we see is there are tools out there that allow you to track people, right, like LinkedIn Sales Navigator is a great example. The problem is, those leads aren't being delivered to the reps, they got to go out and do it themselves. And some may be very good at it. And some might even use it not use it as much of a strategy. But if we can follow those people around and deliver them to the reps at the best potential time, not only are you manufacturing, like best timing for the deal, but you're also giving them leads that are very, very likely to close. So it's putting them at the tip of the spear, rather than requiring them to kind of go back upstream and find that information.

Brandi Starr  08:44

Okay, so that that is really interesting. And so my second question would be do does this approach work across business types? Or is it mainly like, you know, we talked specifically like your example was tied to software? So is it mainly for software companies? Or is this an approach that companies of all sizes and types can leverage?

Braxton Carr  09:09

That's also a great question. So when you think about using gems as a tool, right now, it's being purchased by a lot of sass companies. That's true. But really what use of gems is the tool itself is just an acting upon a strategy. And I think the strategy of tracking champions can be used across a lot of industries. A great example, actually, that we're starting to see is in the education space, right? Think about universities, tracking alumni. Now a big focus for universities and part of how their success is measured is how many people that graduate can we help get into jobs? Well, if I'm tracking my alumni network, and now I see the right this company, or that company or that company, this allows for their like, career placement programs be far more robust. So that's a great example of one way of doing it. Another example might be like consultancy firms, people that move around different companies have similar projects, especially because you work with them over over and over again. So very easy way again, to get your foot in the door and make whatever programs you're running more successful based on that familiarity.

Brandi Starr  10:08

Yeah, and that's a great example. I mean, we're a consultancy, and we've got a client that is now on her third stint with us. So, you know, she brought us in at one company, she's changed jobs twice since then, and we've worked with them. And it's funny, because we're like, you know, where she gonna go next. Like it, you know, we'd like joke that, like, you know, her career path is, is our business development strategy. And, you know, and always said that jokingly, but thinking about champion tracking, like, that is a business development strategy, in really keeping up with those people. And so in thinking about this, like, knowing what's happening is the first part so we know who the champions are, we know where they're moving to. If I am running the revenue, you know, the marketing and sales team, so the revenue team, and I'm thinking about how do I actually use this information? Because obviously, you know, I think where people use Sales Navigator wrong is as soon as they see that job change, they're like, Hey, you want to buy my stuff now? And you're like, I'm still trying to find a bathroom.

Braxton Carr  11:21

I don't even know how to turn this laptop on, right,

Brandi Starr  11:23

like, Bad's to work, like, and so I do think that that is where that data gets used poorly and creates a negative experience. So if I'm running revenue, and I want to build a strategy around this, I know I've got those advocates and champions that exist. I'm like, what, what should I be considering? Like? How do I think about this? Because I do think that this is a channel and a strategy that not everyone is familiar with. So help me understand what I as the head of revenue should be thinking about? If I think champion tracking is a strategy that might be valuable for me.

Braxton Carr  12:03

Yeah, great questions. Again, I think there's a couple of things to think about, like out the gates, like 70% of buyers are going to spend their budget in the first 100 days. That's a study that I think was conducted by McKinsey. But here's the interesting part. And you made a great point, we reach out day one, congrats on the new job, people have no idea how to respond and even know what they're looking at yet, there is an ideal timeframe, probably within that 30 to 100 day window. So A is like timing that reaching out. I think the second bit of this to think about is it's not just the economic buyer, that's going to make the decision on this, like there's an entire buying committee that is probably going to be involved. So I think revenue leaders need to ask themselves, not just are we tracking the person that just bought? But who are the people that are typically involved in deals for us? And how can we engage them as well, when we engage that buyer. And then I think the third thing to think about is, you don't want to put the reps in a position where they're constantly reaching out all the time. Ideally, again, you want them to be at the tip of the spear. So the third thing to consider is how can we have a sales engagement strategy, like fit for purpose sequences that are consistently reaching out to people and their buying committees at the right time. And I think if you do that you can create, I'm not going to use operationalize, you can create, not gonna do it, you can create like a very consistent feedback loop, because as people move, you're engaging the buying committee, they're being put in a fit for purpose sequence, the leads being delivered, rinse, wash, repeat.

Brandi Starr  13:38

Okay, um, and so it is, you know, what I'm getting is it is a bit of a dance in that you've got to really understand what that whole process is going to look like, who to engage, when, and with what message? Am I interpreting that correctly?

Braxton Carr  13:57

Yeah, you are interpreting that correctly, I think something to think about those oftentimes, especially with the type of sales technology that exists now, you know, who the people that show up and your deals typically are, right? So let's say you sell like a sales and marketing tool, probably going to talk to demand gen, you're probably going to talk to the sales, you're probably going to talk to sales development leaders. So you know, the titles already. The question just is how can we engage them at the right time in the deal and create that like groupthink groupthink effect that you need to effectively close?

Brandi Starr  14:30

So let me ask my chicken and egg question. So let's say I'm just gonna make an assumption for Scenario sake, that our champion is the key buyer, the decision maker, and we see that they are, you know, have moved to another organization that we feel we can help with whatever it is we sell. And we know the roles that are typically in that buying committee and you know, with all the technology it's easy to find who the People are, where do you start? Do you lean into the person that you have the relationship with? First? Do you lay some foundation with the buying committee before? You know, bringing it to the leader? Do you try and tackle them both? Like, where do you start with how you want to get in front of people to make it most effective?

Braxton Carr  15:25

Yeah, really interesting. Ask. So actually, funnily enough, the research that we've done, it usually gems around like the best possible sequences for this. The first message is to whoever it was that is already familiar with the tools, maybe that's like the economic buyer, maybe it could be a product user, whatever, the first message you send them isn't even an ask. It's more like, hey, congratulations on the new role. So glad to see that you've moved. Here's a small gift for you, whatever it is, Starbucks gift card, hope you get off to a great start. And why? Because to your point earlier, you go in there, like, hey, congrats on the new role you want to buy this, never gonna go well. But what we found is that if you simply reach out, say, hey, thinking of you, they're always thinking about within those first 100 days, auditing the processes, auditing the systems, that immediately moves you up to top of mind. And oftentimes, they're going to respond a love using tool x back at my old role, looking forward to chatting in the future, as I evaluate my stack, cool, wait for that to happen. On the other end, while they're evaluating the stat, now you can engage some other members of the buying committee and again, not so much with an ask now we're raising awareness, because now what you're creating is an effect where it's going both bottom to top and top to bottom. And it's much easier to land the meeting that way, because you're influencing conversations that are already happening at that company. I love

Brandi Starr  16:47

And I usually, you know, especially when I'm talking to like those that are tech vendors, I usually kind of steer clear of talking about the technology. But what user gems does is to my understanding, fairly new and fairly unique. And so I would like to hear you give me like, What is the summary of the tool? And how is it helping in this process?

Braxton Carr  17:15

Yeah, I think really, you can break the tool down into five simple steps, right, you want to identify who your key buyers are, you want to track them around as they move, when they do move, you want to immediately create action as far as reaching out to them. And going top of mind, when you reach out to them, then you want to multithread the account. And then ultimately, you want to report on the effectiveness of that play. So really, what now what you're doing is not only are you able to have insight as to how effective your former buyers are, as new leads, you're also able from the marketing aspect to have much better reporting on like, attribution, right? Oftentimes, you hear, I know, some portion of my marketing budget is working. And I don't know what portion and I don't know why this takes away from all that, right, this creates an instant feedback loop where you can immediately tell, oh, these are our most valuable types of buyers. And that now trickles down to the rest of the revenue.

Brandi Starr  18:09

Okay, and so is it something that's being used as a standalone tool? Is it being plugged into the marketing automation or the CRM system? Like how is marketing and sales interacting with user dems?

Braxton Carr  18:25

You're thinking about this Exactly. Right. So there's, there's not a UI, it's plugging into the tools that you already use. So what it's doing is, let's say you have like Marketo, and six cents, right? Those things are like collecting information, what's the problem they eat gets that ping. And no AE is like, great, like, can't wait to update Salesforce. They're like, all right, like I gotta go, I gotta go close some business. So whatever ends up in Salesforce right to know and trust, the information that's in there is just old stuff stacked on top of old stuff. So a user jumps is doing is immediately updating that like lead in Salesforce, it's all showing you all of the history from that lead and their experience with your company. Now, something else that you can do the other side of the connection is the sales engagement aspect, right? Like outreach, sales loft, how am I going to reach out to this person or use of gems will automatically push that person to fit for purpose sequence if you want, so all the rep is doing is waiting for the for the calendar invite to come. Which is, which is the dream like That's

Brandi Starr  19:25

to say, I know that that's what every rep wants is, you know, to just be handed the nice warm, ready to go. Leads. Okay, so that that helps me understand. So it is it is a way of essentially, like it's a different data point in that they're moving where they're moving to. But in a more triggered way instead of someone having to go find it in like a Sales Navigator or that kind of tool

Braxton Carr  19:56

100% And one way that I think about it a lot. Actually, funnily enough when I first started at user that was my CEO said this to me, I never forgot it. If you use a tool like a intent data tool, it's kind of like red light, green light, right? Like, this is where you should be going. So my CEO was like intent data tells you like, what club to go to, what we're doing, is telling you which bouncer to talk to, and where all of your friends in the club are located. And the light bulb kind of went off because it's like, you know what, like, I've been plenty of times, I've walked into a club and even to your scuba diving experience. This is a new universe. I don't know where I'm at. I don't know who I'm supposed to be talking to. This all set, right, you walk in your friends, when the VIP your bounces the buddy, easy deal.

Brandi Starr  20:41

That is a perfect analogy, because I have definitely had that panic moment where you get in and you're like, where's everybody at? You know, it's like awkward, all those sorts of things. All anybody? Okay, so let's talk about where people go wrong. Like, it's great to understand what we could be doing should be doing. Where do you see people fail in this? Or where do you see the roadblocks of you know, where they're they're trying to leverage champion tracking and to tap into this, but they're just not getting it right. Like, what are the gotchas?

Braxton Carr  21:24

Yeah, so easy thing to think about here. And this has happened to me in my career as well, back when I was a rep, the very first thing that almost any rep does, and a new role that go into Salesforce, they find the close lost list, they reach out to everyone on that thing? Of course you do. It's easy money. In theory, here are the problems. One of the gaps is that no one ever really wants to take responsibility for Salesforce updating, you know, like in theory, but come on, like you don't. So close last list, 70% of those emails, phone numbers probably aren't right, you have a high bounce rate. So that's one, I think one area that's kind of a stop gap is like the CRM cleanliness itself. And that's something that's been talked about, I think for for many, many years. Now. I think the second part, let's say that the emails aren't good, the CRM is clean. It's not consistent at scale, what the reps are doing, because it's on an individual level. So I as a rep could be someone that is totally bought into this idea. I'm tracking all those close loss people in LinkedIn, I'm reaching out to them, when I reach out to them, again, not going back into Salesforce. But secondly, other people on my team might not be doing that. So there's a lot that's left on the table, because if one rep is doing it, and blowing out their numbers, and other reps are like, ah, like, doesn't really seem like it's for me, that's a huge blind spot for the company. So I think the second error that we make is, people have the information to do this, but it's not being delivered to them in an actionable way. And so what that means is you see inconsistency across companies leveraging the strategy, because it's all on the individual to make this happen, rather than the company delivering it to them after making all those actions occur.

Brandi Starr  23:14

Okay, so it sounds like they're the the data, is that the core of what goes wrong when it's clean when people are not buying into the system? And actually tracking the same things?

Braxton Carr  23:28

Yeah, I would say so I think that the TLDR, there is a certainly like the the data and the cleanliness. But secondly, the consistency of the play. If it's all on the individual, and there's no way to track it or really judge the effectiveness of it, it's more of like a nice to have than a must have, right.

Brandi Starr  23:47

Okay. And so my last thing that I want to dig into is what are the benefits when you get this, right? Because there's all sorts of different strategies, you know, and different things become the hot thing different times. But at the end of the day, it's all about impact, whether it's worth it. So if a company leverages champion tracking, and you know, everybody gets behind it, what's the win? There

Braxton Carr  24:16

are a company that I think about a lot that I think executed on this really well actually is gone. You see gone talk a lot about this idea of raving fans, people that love gone, and I'm going to be honest, I'm one of them. There is no way no way I have anything to say about it. I'm going to use a different tool than gone for what I use it for, it's not going to happen. And so the benefit if you actively track your champions and engage them from company to company, is first of all, you create a raving fan base, like the people that are fans of your tool are absolute diehards, right like their equivalent of Swifties for tech. I think the second thing to think about is also people move up in their careers. Right. So if you're continuing to track your champions for that long a period of time as the company matures, your ability to get into more and more mature companies accelerates with you, because your raving fans are developing in their careers. So really two main benefits, right, you create a crazy fan base, but as your fan base gains acumen, so do you.

Brandi Starr  25:24

Okay, so it is, and then what is our like? I know, you talked about, you know, unearthing the hidden pipeline. So is it more about increasing pipeline generation pipeline value velocity, like, you know, thinking about it in the business metrics? What's going to be the bottom line impact? Like, what what needle? Are we really moving? You know, when it comes to the numbers?

Braxton Carr  25:53

Yeah. So there are three main things that I think about for this. The first is certainly pipeline generation, I think that that's like the most obvious one, right? No question, you're probably going to create more pipeline, and that pipeline is probably going to convert into like SQ O's or whatever you want to call them at a higher rate, basically, like that initial contact to sales accepted should go up. That's one. The second thing to think about now is pipeline acceleration. If you have raving fans and deals off the bat, the deals are probably going to move faster. And they're probably going to be a little bit bigger, because you're not going to be in like a procurement hell forever, because they're going to be going to bat for you. And the last thing to think about, and this is actually like a more edge use case that we're starting to see is like more prominent, and people talking about it now. Churn is a huge conversation topic in tech right now, because everybody is cutting down on their stacks. churn, prevention is certainly something to think about. So when you think about NRR, and Grr, if a new champion joins an account that you're actively working with, and is up for renewal, your odds for doing that account just went up significantly, because they're a raving fan, and they're gonna go to bat for you. So the KPIs that you can think about with huge gems, and there are many of them. Certainly, total pipeline generated, pipeline converted, average ACV, sales cycle speed, and our orange er, those are the ones that I would say, you can probably anticipate seeing positive changes do.

Brandi Starr  27:21

Okay. And I said, it was my last question, but I just thought of one other that I want to ask, is there any company that this is not for? So is there any scenario where you're like, Good work, but probably not?

Braxton Carr  27:36

Yeah, yes. And it's actually you know, why it's the difference between a database and like a data processor. So user gems is not a database, right? What we're doing is connecting to your Salesforce, and then updating all that information. So if you already know your ICP, and you have, you know, five, six different titles that you reach out to, this is amazing, right? They there's no reason that you wouldn't use a tool like user drops. Let's say you're a company that doesn't know who you sell to yet, and you've got 400 different titles that you're trying to work through, and you're not really certain of the industry that you're working in, then a database like zoom info is probably better, because you can run all kinds of like, custom searches across all sorts of like diverse types of departments. So what this boils down to is, if you're a company that doesn't quite know what your kind of sales cycle and sales strategy looks like, maybe not a fit, but most companies that are past like a seed stage, are starting to zero in on that. And they're probably starting to create people that are huge fans. So if you are at a point where you generally know who you're selling to, and why something like us gems is a great fit. And the strategy even beyond the tool is a great fit. Okay,

Brandi Starr  28:47

yeah, and that helps, because I know, you know, a lot of times and even outside of the technology, but just thinking about the strategy, the approach behind it. So often things get talked about as if they're like, a one size fits all. And it's, that's never the case, like there are going to be certain approaches where, you know, it's gonna work really well and other places where it's like, it could work. I mean, not saying that, it totally won't, but it's not going to be you know, your your sweet spot. So that is helpful. So Braxton talking about our challenges is just the first step and nothing changes if nothing changes. And so in traditional therapy, the therapist gives the client some homework here, revenue rehab, we like to flip that on its head and ask you to give us some homework. And so I'd love to hear what is your one thing, the one action that if you know, we're listening, and we feel like the strategy of champion tracking is something we want to explore? Where do we start? What's our next action?

Braxton Carr  29:56

Yeah, great question. I actually know it Usually I work for user gems. And so I think if you're gonna do this user gems is the best way to do it. But let's say you aren't going to do it and you want to take one step forward. It's not like an implementation process. You've already provided your team with the closed loss leads that exist is your Salesforce report, fine. If you take it even one step further, and find a way through your Salesforce fields to add context as to what that leads experience was and why it's going to be far easier for them to go out and close the deals, easy example, NPS scores, I got a close loss lead that a high NPS score, not a new company, as a no brainer, right? This view is I'm just looking at a report on Salesforce with no context or action ability. So I think the one thing to do from here is find a way to add some context to your Salesforce fields, and help the deliverability and the accessibility to the reps. I think it's that simple.

Brandi Starr  30:52

Okay, I love that. So it's like we've got our marching orders now in being able to figure out how we can tap into some of the power of champion tracking. Well, I have enjoyed our discussion so much. But that's our time for today. Before we go, how can our audience connect with you?

Braxton Carr  31:12

Yeah. If you're curious about champion tracking in general, definitely go to User gems.com. I think it's certainly worth a look. But if you want to connect with me, personally, feel free to add me Braxton Carr on LinkedIn. I'm looking forward to chatting with someone of you and hoping you guys enjoy the episode.

Brandi Starr  31:29

Awesome. Well, we will make sure to link to both user gems and your LinkedIn in the show notes. So wherever you are listening or watching this podcast, you should be able to click those links and connect with Braxton or connect, or learn more about User gems. Should I say? Well, thanks so much for joining me today. Thank you for having me. Awesome. And thanks, everyone. I hope that you have enjoyed my conversation with Braxton. I can't believe we're at the end. We'll see you next time.

Outro VO  32:01

You've been listening to Reverend Rehab with your host Brandi Starr. Your session is now over but the learning has just begun. join our mailing list and catch up on all our shows at revenue rehab dot live. We're also on Twitter and Instagram at revenue we have. This concludes this week's session. We'll see you next week.