Data-Driven Personalization: The Secret Sauce for Customer Retention

Brandi Starr [00:00:34]:
Hello, hello, hello and welcome to another episode of Revenue Rehab. I am your host, Brandi Starr, and we have another amazing episode for you today. I am joined by Josias de la Espada, a digital marketing leader with two decades of experience helping organizations engage their saturated audiences. And the CEO of Personal Hosias is truly passionate about the transformative power of personalized storytelling and video experiences. Through his exceptional work, Josias has successfully assisted organizations across a wide range of industries, including finance, education and automotive, in capturing the attention of their target audiences, engaging them deeply and compelling them to take action. Welcome to Revenue rehab. Your session begins now.

Josías De La Espada [00:01:34]:
Thank you for having me.

Brandi Starr [00:01:35]:
I am excited to talk to you. But before we jump in to our topic, I like to break the ice with a little woosa moment that I call buzzword banishment. So tell me, what industry buzzword would you like to get rid of forever?

Josías De La Espada [00:01:57]:
Well, it's not a buzzword per se. It's more like the surrounding mindset. So marketing and communications leaders often discuss engagement, right? So I talk about engagement all the time. However. Yeah, they sometimes come across new trends, strategies, ideas that seem interesting but lack specific metrics, KPI's business goals that align with their audience's goals and yeah, just think about a CMO, for example, that launches this campaign or that other campaign because a competitor did the same. And I often have a problem with that.

Brandi Starr [00:02:39]:
Ah, so we are going to banish copycat tactics, for example.

Josías De La Espada [00:02:45]:
Yeah, I can advantage engagement as a word because we use it all the time, but the wrong concept around it. Yes.

Brandi Starr [00:02:55]:
Okay, so we are going to banish engagement, which may be a little bit difficult to not say in our conversation today, but now that we've gotten that off our chest, tell me, what brings you to revenue rehab today?

Josías De La Espada [00:03:13]:
Yeah, so many cmos struggle to keep customers coming back and or even just to retain them and to keep them happy, loyal. And the same goes for customers, investors, employees. Whoever communicates with an audience and needs to grab their attention. And emails in most of the cases can feel impersonal. And it is tough to get people excited about something like renewing an insurance policy or just spending more, right? I mean, yeah. So today I would like to explore how better context and content, like with personalized videos but just in general, better context and content in emails can change that. And I think that we can talk about using video, for instance, to grab people's attention, build relationships, and even help people and even convince them whenever it's necessary to continue using a product or leveraging a solution, depending on what you guys, our audiences have to offer to their clients in general.

Brandi Starr [00:04:30]:
Okay. Yeah. And I do know that we are always looking for ways to make, you know, our existing tactics more effective and really to resonate with people. And personalization, of course, has been a hot topic for quite some time. And that that means different things to different people. And so, you know, I believe in setting intentions. It gives us focus, it gives us purpose, and most important, it gives our audience an understanding of what they should expect from our conversation. And so what's your best hope? What's your intentions for our discussion? What would you like people to take away?

Josías De La Espada [00:05:14]:
I have three things. Basically, three things. Number one, I would love to help cmos understand the importance of building that emotional connection with their audience. And, yeah, it's not just sending campaigns, for instance. People have their own context. And this takes me to the second one, which is that this requires understanding the context behind every contact. And technology can help you get there. And the third one, now that you have that context, why not use in that context to personalize messages, interactions, touchpoints, to help these customers, clients, your audience in general, achieve their goals while you achieve yours, which is increasing revenue, lifetime value, loyalty, and so on.

Josías De La Espada [00:06:04]:
So those three things I believe are going to be quite helpful.

Brandi Starr [00:06:09]:
Okay. And so I'll start, I think that gives me a good format in terms of how to dig into the conversation. So, starting with the importance of emotional connection, I think most marketers, I would argue, get the value that marketing really is driving emotion in a b, two B context. Sometimes that does get lost because we think about, a lot of times we think about that we are talking to a business, and a business doesn't necessarily have emotions, but there are, you know, the business is a buying committee, which is a group of individuals, and all the individuals have emotions. And so I would love to hear your take, especially in a b, two B context, around that importance of creating that emotional context. So give me some of your thoughts there.

Josías De La Espada [00:07:07]:
Yeah, so I think that we need to remember that even if there is comedy or it's like a large or small organization, it doesn't really matter. They are, you know, it's people buying. We're talking about people buying something and people renewing something and people recommending whatever it is. And most of our decisions are based on emotions. Most of them, and this is regardless of your position, regardless of the amount of money you need to invest or spend in XYZ solution. We're talking about people that have emotions and they are thinking about their own position in the future if something goes wrong. Or they are thinking about maybe a promotion, just a few, maybe. A couple of months ago, a client told me that he got a promotion and it is more or less related to something he was doing with our service.

Josías De La Espada [00:08:10]:
So people have their own context, and based on that context, based on different emotional motivators, they make decisions. We all do. And I think that it is important to remember that. And also that these emotions, they are dynamic. And more often than not, when organizations communicate, especially for example in the B two B space, we are talking about static communications. I'm not referring to adding personalization to a message or not. I'm talking about adapting to what the specific contact needs at a particular moment time. And that's something to remember, I believe.

Brandi Starr [00:08:59]:
Yeah, I would agree there that that is really important. And I think something that you hit on subtly that I want to dig into a little more is we do all have our own motivations, and I think sometimes those personal motivations don't get thought about when we're talking about our marketing message. And I'll give an example and then I'll let you react to it. So I had a client a few years back, and, you know, we work in email and her organization was trying to make the decision if they were going to stay on their current marketing automation platform or switch to another one. And we were a part of that evaluation and helping them figure out what was right. And my main contact, when we were on a call, one on one, she said, hey, can you stop the recording? Need to talk to you about something off the record. And so when I stopped the recording, we talked, she shared, and she was like, look, I need you to recommend that we stay on this platform. She was like, I am too old, too far in my career to learn something new.

Brandi Starr [00:10:10]:
She was like, I, you know, I got my sights set on retirement. I don't want to leave and go somewhere else. If we move to another platform, this is going to be extremely problematic for me. And, you know, I did. We had to have some conversations, like ethically, I'm like, I can't just say stay, you know, because of this. But either way, it was, you know, it really hit me that we're talking about, you know, all of the pros and cons of like technical features and ease of use and all of the things that you typically think about when it comes to making this kind of choice. And I hadn't really thought about the fact that each individual has some unspoken drivers and motivators that we really. Emotions, like there was a real fear was the emotion that she was feeling of if we make this change.

Brandi Starr [00:11:08]:
And so what, you know, going back to what you said in understanding the importance of the emotional context, understanding that emotions are dynamic, I think this kind of thing really plays a role in how we are communicating and what we're saying and how we pull on those emotions. Do you have any thoughts about that? Have you seen similar experiences?

Josías De La Espada [00:11:34]:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it happens all the time. For some people it is fear, for other people it is maybe a better situation in the future. For other people it is we are going to be able to hit X or YZ target. So my main thought is that it happens. And in the end, I think that an easy, healthy exercise is to think. So imagine, for example, a conversation. When you are in a conversation just like us right now, this conversation is dynamic.

Josías De La Espada [00:12:11]:
And the way brands should communicate with their people, with their audience in general, should also be like a conversation based on what you're telling me, I'm going to respond XYZ, based on what I'm telling you're going to do this and this and that. And you can also guide that conversation, having the aspirations, the goals, objectives, etcetera, of the other person in mind, but also your own goals in mind. And that's a healthy exercise. So a way or something I find useful is taking a closer look at how other either industries or for example, if it is b, two b how b two c organizations communicate. If you're talking about internal communications, how people that deal with clients, customers, et cetera, communicate, what are their tactics on different strategies to keep the interest and how, you know, how many touch points they are using to be there in their top of mind, et cetera. Yeah. So I believe it is a healthy exercise. And just to give you a really simple example, a few years ago we work with this car brand, and in their case, they figured out that many of their new customers didn't like car leasing, long term rental, let's say, didn't understand the financial implications and terms of the contracts they had already signed.

Josías De La Espada [00:13:47]:
And so this is like the main brand or the bank of this main brand. And, but the ones communicating with customers were like the car dealers. And so the main brand had to, had to somehow intervene there to have more control over the communication, because in the end it impacts lifetime value. Then you have more complaints. You know, when you are listing a car, it's like buying a house. It is even more profitable in some cases than just selling the car. So they had to do something there. And what they did is make sure that every customer really could really understand the terms of the contracts by personalizing, in this case, those communications in a way that adaptation to the way these people just visit people in general, consume information.

Josías De La Espada [00:14:38]:
So the car dealership was just fine, they're selling. But then the brand realized that something else was happening that was affecting their conversions, that was affecting. They were getting more complaints and all that. And that's expensive long term. So when you take all of, when you think about the context, potentially from up here, it is easier to see the whys. Not that much the what, like in your case. Why is that? It is, you know, changing CRMs or marketing tools, et cetera, could be a nightmare. And is it only for this person? Maybe it is for the whole department because there is no leadership coming in or whatever.

Josías De La Espada [00:15:22]:
It depends. So taking those thinking about those whys, let's say, give you answers to better address their potential needs and be able also to advise what's the best way to move forward from there.

Brandi Starr [00:15:36]:
Okay, so I want to shift to your second point around the context behind the contact. And I do think that this example that you just gave speaks to that a bit. But I do like that deeper thought before we talk about connecting the context to personalization. Um, can you elaborate on, you know, what you refer to as the context behind the content or context behind the contact?

Josías De La Espada [00:16:07]:
Yeah, there is an example I. I usually use because somehow we all like traveling or being in hotels and, you know, enjoy holidays and things like that. So I am a dad of one, and I'm a husband. And also I'm an entrepreneur, and I work for my company, etcetera. If I have to travel, if I have to, like, for work, I have one specific budget. I have, you know, things that I can do when I am by myself. Maybe I'll go to this type of restaurant or this other type of restaurant. If I have to travel with my wife, chances are that we won't choose McDonald's, which I love.

Josías De La Espada [00:16:54]:
I'm a happy new guy at my almost forties because she wants something more special, more romantic and all that. And even the type of room, the type of hotel, everything will be different because it's not business anymore, is our connection and all that as a couple. If I travel with my wife and my son, we're going to choose places where my son will be fine, will be, will have fun. Well, the three of us will enjoy. So I could even go to the same resort, to the same hotel, or to the same type of itinerary. But my budget changes, my, my things I want to do in different places, my goals and my objectives also changes. All those things change. So it is the same person.

Josías De La Espada [00:17:37]:
However, my context or the context behind that person, which in this case is me, changes completely. However, in most cases, if I am the same person going to the same hotel in the same different scenarios, I'll be treated as hoseasanal.com, which is my email, and that's it. And there is no, the context would be the one I potentially gave or shared the first time whenever I registered, for instance. And that's a problem. It's an expensive problem. If you think about it, if you think about loyalty, if you think about upsells, if you think about maybe even cross sell strategies and so on. So that's more or less the context. And most organizations don't have, when you think about maybe a CRM or a marketing tool and so on, most organizations don't have the appropriate tools in place or fields, tags, whatever they use, lists or whatever they use that could help them trace that or track that context so that then their communications make more sense and can support that person's experience with the organization.

Josías De La Espada [00:18:50]:
If we are not there to support their experience, either now or tomorrow or the following day, there's going to be a problem and that's going to be an expensive problem. Just think about whatever happened in Covid. For many organization sales went down. However, those organizations that were able to keep that connection with their people, with their audiences, were able to perform better, financially speaking. So that's the thing, let's say, behind the context.

Brandi Starr [00:19:17]:
Yeah, I agree completely. You hit on, I think, two key points, which is one, one person is not always operating or buying in the same capacity. And I think, you know, your example is as an individual, but I think even on the b two b side, like that context helps as well. But the challenge you hit on, I think, is a huge one, which is the data. And there are, you know, like the ability to personalize in the way that you mention almost for most marketers feels like a dream, like a unicorn of something that like, yes, that would be amazing, but will never have the data to support that. And I do think when it comes to personalization and really being able to have better context around what the buyer is thinking, feeling. There's a lot we can glean by the digital actions that they take if we have the data collected and a way to actually do something with it. And unfortunately, most companies don't invest in the tools or the time to really be able to get that much out of it.

Brandi Starr [00:20:40]:
Are you seeing anyone that's really doing it successfully?

Josías De La Espada [00:20:45]:
I've seen a few of them. And even among our clients, we have people that do great and people that do. So the tools are there, but it's not just about having the tools. Tools is. And it's not even about having all the data you can, you know, getting all the data you can to just print it there in an email, for instance. What's more relevant, what's more important is making sure that we are gathering and understanding and even interpreting well. You get the word, the data we have access to, to support the contacts experience, to improve their experience. And that doesn't happen often.

Josías De La Espada [00:21:30]:
Let me give you an example. So if, if, you know, I'm going to go back to a, b, two, c example, because it is easier to understand to everyone, because not everyone knows about selling spaceships, but they know about being in a hotel. So if a hotel, if I hold, if a hotel asks, when you know, when you're doing the, what's the name, the booking reservation for how many kids you are traveling with and their age, don't just do it to know that if I'm traveling with kids or not. Do it to potentially adapt the experiences, the recommendations based on their age. An example just come to mind. There is this resort that would do that, in their case, based on the age of their kids, of the kids you were traveling with, they would then show different recommendations or the value proposition for you if you were traveling with a toddler or if it's a teenager or three teenagers, etcetera, because the experience changes. If your kids are having a bad experience, if you are getting bored and so on, then you're not going to spend as much as you could. The same adapts to any type of product or service, also in the b two B space.

Josías De La Espada [00:22:55]:
So it is a creative exercise. With the data I have access to, how can I better serve my customers so that they can perform XyZ goal, and so that I can also, as an organization, achieve this and this and this and this. And it is a creative exercise. And it is often a creative exercise that sadly comes from one department. But it works a lot better when you are not working in silos, when you can work with Es, your creative team perhaps, but also marketing, but also customer experience, but also support, customer engagement, customer enablement, and so on. If you do that together, you'll have a bigger impact because you'll be able to better use the data you have access to to communicate and engage with your people. And you'll find patterns that will lead to more money at the end of the day because you're better serving your customers in the end.

Brandi Starr [00:23:52]:
I agree completely. And yeah, that is, you know, a lot of times going through those exercises is the catalyst for getting the data in order, in not just thinking about what you already have, but what information you could collect and how you would use it. And once you start to unlock, like here's what we could be doing to better serve our customers and our prospects, that becomes a okay. Now we've got to do this because we recognize the value. So in some cases, that exercise is how do we use what we have? But in other cases, it allows you to build the business case for filling in the gaps or cleaning up your data or all those sorts of things. So I wanna shift to your last point, which is using the context to personalize. And I agree with what you said at the beginning of this episode in that personalization matters in making our communications more effective. It helps with, you know, driving revenue, retaining revenue, customer satisfaction, loyalty, all those sorts of things.

Brandi Starr [00:25:06]:
When someone feels like a communication they receive, whether it's via email or some other channel, is, you know, it feels one to one. It feels like it is for them. So I'd love to hear some of your tips, best practices, ideas around how you use that context to personalize. And because I know video is, you know, your sweet spot. Also tell us how video plays a role in that.

Josías De La Espada [00:25:35]:
Yeah, I would say go beyond, if it's like as a recommendation or a few tips, go beyond first name. Adding a first name to an email helps. The reports show that it is not as effective as it used to be, but it still helps. But customers already know their name, so it helps potentially to grab their initial attention. But when we talk about upselling, cross selling, increasing revenue, increasing loyalty and so on, we are talking about building a connection with, or continuing building that connection with the people that is on the other side of the screen, for instance. So I'll go back to the context. So, okay, from the information we have access to, and let's forget about the name for a moment, which is important, but there is a lot more than that. How can we help this type of, this Persona or this segment or this contact depends on how granular you can go.

Josías De La Espada [00:26:40]:
Better understand this or that other complex information. Let me use another example that it is common to all of us. Insurance. No one likes paying for an insurance policy. At least I haven't been lucky enough to find someone that wants to pay for an insurance policy. But you need insurance either because it gives you peace of mind, or it is a legal requirement, and so on. Why not helping people that are like this, that are either single or that have been a customer without any type of accidents in the last five years, and so on, with the information they need, the value proposition you have to offer based on who they are based on, that's their context. And if you realized or you see that they had some kind of issue, they request some, you know, XYZ information all the time, then why not adapt your communications to how that profile of individual better understand that type of information, so that you can decrease, for instance, complaints and things like that.

Josías De La Espada [00:27:48]:
So when people think about personalization, they think about printing data, for instance, in an email. And that's a great first step if you have to start like, if it is like your first time, but if you want to take it to the next level, it is more about, this is what I know about these people. This is the data I have in my CRM, for instance, or any other tool you use. How can I use this information to, how can I translate it? Or how can interpret this information so that they can better understand this based on their Persona, segment, whatever you have access to, so that then they perform the action I wanted to perform, which should align with their goals. And that's how you, for example, personalize calls to action, personalize maybe the intro of an email campaign, personalize the content of a landing page. And that makes a huge difference, because most competitors, most of your competitors, talking about competitors at the beginning of a conversation, are not doing that, because it is a creative exercise and it makes a huge difference. You were talking about video, obviously. So video is what we do.

Josías De La Espada [00:29:06]:
But most of our customers communicate with their audiences through email, for instance. And the reason why I believe many organizations, not all of them or not always, should use video, is because it helps you make complex information easy to understand, and also because it helps you emotionally connect through storytelling, storytelling with your people. And if you combine video, storytelling, personalization, it is a really powerful tool that can help people understand their message, what's relevant to them, and then based on that, take action in their journey. But if I had to leave you just to one tip, think about just go through the data you have access to. Remember the goals of your different segments or Personas. It really depends on how much you have already done and see, okay, with this information. How can I help them better understand these based on the data I have access to? And many times, even personalization won't even be obvious. It won't be just a field there like a personalization token in HubSpot or whatever tool.

Josías De La Espada [00:30:23]:
Sometimes it would be because we know these, then we're going to present this other, which could be an image, it could be a video clip, it could be a call to action, it could be a phrase, a sentence, etcetera. That alone will make a huge impact in terms of conversions, because you're making the content truly relevant to their context. And finally, in a world where personalizing is available, you don't need super sophisticated tools anymore. Anyone can do it. Big budgets, small budgets, it doesn't really matter right now. That makes a difference. So making sure that you are able to interpret, like making sure that you are able to translate somehow the information you have access to to help the contact on the other side of the screen, that alone will make a big difference, at least in our experience.

Brandi Starr [00:31:15]:
Yeah, and I think that is a great point. So often people think about personalization as inserting information that they know about the person or the organization into the message. But in the context that you're giving, thinking about those, what I call sub segments. So if you look at all the data that you have, you start to identify those sub segments of people. So using your hotel example, this person is traveling with a child that is, you know, under seven, for example, that information, then having a video or, you know, an offer or whatever that is specific to that audience. You wouldn't say in the email, hey, because you're traveling with a child under five, because that gets a little weird. But, you know, you put that message that should appeal to them. That is a key.

Brandi Starr [00:32:11]:
And in my opinion, the most effective form of personalization, rather than insert data here, because we have this data. And so I do think that that's, and that's also a way that video personalization can scale, because I think that's the other thing that comes up often, is people recognize, like, yes, video is really effective, but video can be expensive depending on how it's done. So how do we scale that? And I think it does come back to what you were saying, which is looking at your data, what do we have? How can we identify those kind of sub micro segments and be able to create the content that speaks to them so that it feels like it is truly one to one.

Josías De La Espada [00:33:01]:
That's correct. That's correct. And it is. It can be truly one to one. And I would say, or I would add, if there is no way you can do that, if this, then that. If we talk about like, with a pragmatic or like an engineering mind, let's say, then a good first step would be to just add those personalization tokens whenever it makes sense to improve the content, like the emails or pop up messages and so on, that you can use now, if you want to take it to the next level and want to make it even more useful from a contact perspective, from a customer perspective, then use that information to adapt to their content. So there is something I call the augmented by your Persona. So you have just general market, then you go down.

Josías De La Espada [00:33:50]:
At some point, you get to the segment, then you get to the Personas within those segments. And then now with technology, you have, all right, I know this person fits within this Persona, but I also have this or that type of information about them. When I mix those things, I get even more context that I can use, even in real time, through email campaigns, landing pages, and so on, to better engage with them, even through their emotional motivators that you mentioned earlier. So you can identify those signals. So what is Charlie or Mike or Jennifer or whoever trying to achieve? And how can I tackle that fear or tackle that goal through this communication, if that's for real, something we can help this person with, and that makes a huge difference.

Brandi Starr [00:34:45]:
Okay.

Josías De La Espada [00:34:45]:
You can do the same with video.

Brandi Starr [00:34:47]:
Yes, no, I agree completely. And talking about our challenges is just the first step. And nothing changes. If nothing changes. And so, in traditional therapy, the therapist gives the client some homework. But here at revenue rehab, we like to flip that on its head and ask you to give us some homework. So I'd love to hear your one thing. What is the one action, or should I say the first action that people can take if they want to move in the direction of being able to better personalize in order to drive all the benefits that we've been talking about?

Josías De La Espada [00:35:26]:
All right, so I would say go back to, if you, if you're using Personas, go back to those Personas. Chances are that you have that there is a lot more than what you just initially had. And go through those contacts or segments, whatever every organization has, and try to find patterns that could help you better connect with them. So it could be people that are performing this particular action. Maybe it's 20% of them that are performing this type of action or that are requesting this type of information. That's one action step, because that will give you a better sense of what's going on for real. As marketers, we love staying in the digital world in general and sending campaigns and creating ads and all those things. But there is a lot more when you find those patterns.

Josías De La Espada [00:36:25]:
A second action step that comes to my mind right now is talking to other teams, departments, divisions within the organization, talking, for example, with, with customer support, customer enablement to sales, and trying to understand what do they know that you don't yet. And trying to unify that on your end and even sharing with them so that you find more patterns. Once you have that, you don't have to, you don't have to get too crazy to personalize things. You can simply go over the data you already have access to, the structured data you have access to beyond the first name and see, okay, this is what these people, this is what I have. These are my goals. These are usually my metrics, these are my KPI's to support those goals, business goals. These are also the goals these other people have. My audience, my customers, clients, investors, etcetera.

Josías De La Espada [00:37:25]:
Okay, how can I use this information to make these messages more appealing? And it is a creative exercise. And there is something I call dynamic cards. It's easier when you do it like on paper and you gather all the data you have access to. You go through the customer journey and you see, okay, at this point in the journey or through this touch point, how can I use email or a chatbot or whatever to engage with them, to help them achieve this particular goal that I need them to achieve? And then in this order, touch point, how can I do XYz? And then you move it like that. It is a creative exercise. Once you have done all that, it becomes easier to choose tools, messages, to copywriting, all those things, channels. And in some cases, emails will be perfect. In some cases, emails will be not great at all.

Josías De La Espada [00:38:18]:
Maybe it's an sms and maybe it is a call, but what matters is using the data you have access to based on their context to better serve them. If you do those three things, it already makes a huge difference because I've seen it over the last decade, in this case, working with personalization.

Brandi Starr [00:38:36]:
Perfect. So we got not one, but two action items, which I love to give people a clear next step. Well, Hosias, I have enjoyed our discussion, but that's our time for today. But before we go, tell our audience how they can connect with you and also give the shameless plug for personal. So for those that are, you know, looking for video, that they know what you offer as well.

Josías De La Espada [00:39:04]:
Sure. So about personal. Personal with an eye. In the end, we realize that most organizations deal with what we call saturated audiences. These are people that are busy, that should pay attention to business critical messages that we share with them but don't. And this happens a lot. If they don't pay attention to those messages, you guys lose money in the end, shorter or long term. So we are here to help you connect with them, help you engage with them so that you can perform or achieve your business goals.

Josías De La Espada [00:39:38]:
And they can also achieve their business goals or their personal goals, depending on depends on your audience. Through video personalization. We all pay attention to video. We love content that is personalized. More than 76% of people love personalization in general within their interactions. And we combine those things with automation to help you create automatically video for every individual based on their individual context so that you can better engage with them. And you can do that at scale. I'm quite accessible, generally speaking.

Josías De La Espada [00:40:09]:
You can find me on, for example, LinkedIn, Josea de la Spada, or just type CEO personal on Google. If you don't know how to type my name, that's perfectly fine. And even by email. Joseonal.com, that's the easy one.

Brandi Starr [00:40:24]:
Okay, well, we will make sure to link to your LinkedIn as well as the personal website so nobody has to work on the specific spelling and that way they can connect with you. Well, thanks everyone for joining us. I hope you have enjoyed my discussion today. And Jose us, thank you again for joining me here on the couch. I have truly enjoyed the discussion. Awesome. Well, thanks everyone. I can't believe we're at the end.

Brandi Starr [00:40:54]:
Until next time, bye bye.