Email Fight Management: The Secret Engine Behind Email-Driven Growth

Intro VO  00:05

Welcome to Revenue Rehab, your one stop destination for collective solutions to the challenges faced by marketing leaders today. Now head on over to the couch, make yourself comfortable and get ready to change the way you approach revenue. Leading your recovery a modern marketer, author, speaker and Chief Operating Officer and Tegrita Brandi Starr

Brandi Starr  00:33

Hello, hello hello and welcome to another episode of revenue rehab. I am your host Brandi Starr and we have another amazing episode for you today. This episode is extra special because I am joined by Rolly, Kenan and Mike Jones, two of our amazing tech friends. It's rare that we have we bring our entire lives to the couch so you're in for a special treat today. Rolly Kenan is a born leader and a key growth specialist at Tegrita as our CRO, Rolly brings 25 years of diverse experience at the likes of LinkedIn, Oracle, Gallup and the US Olympic volleyball team. Graduating with his MBA in marketing from Northwestern University Kellogg School of Management. Rolly has some unique experience in his career, including making over 500,000 cold calls, and he has even spent time in training for high stakes negotiation protocol for hostage situations. Mike Doane is a management professional with nearly 10 years of experience managing product projects and improving processes in various industries such as healthcare, technology, manufacturing, construction, pharmaceuticals, and marketing. Mike is a senior client engagement manager at Tegrita and works closely on our email flight management service. Mike grew up on the east coast of Canada, where he attended Dalhousie University and received an engineering degree and an MBA. Welcome to revenue rehab, your session begins now. I think every time I read bios, even for people that I know, I learn something new. So it's exciting to have you both here. And we're going to talk about our favorite topic, which is email. But before we jump into that, I like to break the ice with a little Woosah moment that I call buzzword banishment. So Mike, I'll start with you. What buzzword would you like to banish?

Mike Doane  02:42

Well, I think it's topical for the conversation today. And that's email blasts.

Brandi Starr  02:49

Okay, I know, email blasts was one that was banished last year and made it pretty far in March Madness. So it is a commonly hated term. Rolly, what about you?

Rolly Keenan  03:04

I hate double click where people like to say you don't want to go deeper on that, you know, topic and they'll say, let's double click on that I just want to run.

Brandi Starr  03:18

That one drives me crazy as well. And as much as I hear it, I am like caught off guard. Every time someone says it. I'm like, we want to do want to do but like, Yeah, this is not a webpage. This is a conversation we'll go deeper probe.

Rolly Keenan  03:37

When somebody tells you in real life, lol, you're like, you see the words, or you can just laugh out loud.

Brandi Starr  03:44

I know what it means. So, now that we've gotten that off our chest, we are not going to have any email blasts. And we are not going to double click on anything. But we may do a little bit of Deep Dive. lol Anywho. So Rolly, tell me what brings you to revenue rehab today?

Rolly Keenan  04:16

Well, we're going to talk a little bit about I mean email in general, like the email and marketing in general. And we do specifically a structured approach to email called email flight management in Tegrita. So we're gonna talk about email marketing and the benefits, the hidden sort of secret benefits of it and why and how and everything around it.

Brandi Starr  04:43

Awesome, and I will give like the clear notice that even though this podcast is three Tegrita funds, this is not a sales pitch for anybody who has listened to revenue rehab before you should know we dig into the issues. But given that we We live and breathe this every day. This is a common challenge of how people drive growth and revenue from email. So has bring in the experts to talk about it. In addition to talking about the challenge, I believe in setting intentions, it gives us focus, it gives us purpose and most important, it lets our audience know what they should expect from our discussion today. So Mike, I'll come to you to set our intention, what would you like people to take away from the conversation?

Mike Doane  05:35

Yeah, so think that email is the anchor point that a lot of companies should base their communications on? If it's not it should be. There's a lot of other driving factors like social media, and real life marketing, like billboards and that kind of thing. But at the end of the day, email is the anchor point. And that's where the majority of focus should be.

Brandi Starr  06:03

Awesome. I agree wholeheartedly. And I think the reason that this is such an important topic is because I don't think most companies spend enough time thinking about email, email strategy, how they are communicating, you know, there is so much energy and effort looking at paid media and native ads and content syndication, and events, and all these things that are meant to garner attention. And no one thinks about the and then what, and I think the analogy that I use is, you know, I love dating analogies. So you think about marriage, it talks about how people spend so much effort preparing for the wedding, but not preparing for the marriage. That's kind of my comparison. It's like people put all their effort into all the things that are going to attract their audience to them. And then it's like the and then what? And so Rolly, my first question is for you, you know, given that you have been, you know, you're educated in marketing, but have primarily spent your career more on the sales side. What have you seen as the biggest gap when it comes to not focusing on that communication journey? And putting email as the anchor point?

Rolly Keenan  07:35

Well, I mean, it kind of goes to when, when you're asking Mike about intention, I was listening to Mike, thinking about that. And, and, you know, your question here around what have I seen, I mean, you know, if you look at the jury, if you look at the journey of you know, maybe you have SDRs, or dtrs, or somebody getting meetings, and you've got, you know, salespeople calling them, and then somewhere in there in the CRM, it gets pulled into a campaign because of something that's happened, and now they're getting emails, I feel like the rapid pace, if you just look, sort of my sort of techno technique, technical career began in 1998. And so if you kind of go there, and you kind of follow, like, the stream here, you know, to ask first answer question didn't ask me, intention would be with everybody, just kind of look at how we got here, and then decide if emails important or not, instead of just like, looking at what's in front, you know, there's plenty of people that are not as old as me, that are only 10 years into their career or something that's they only see their experiences like this big, and I look back across what I've seen in from way back then. Till now, and you, you can't do anything without email. At some point, there's someone's going to get an email. And if if you downplay that, you know, your wedding analogies and interesting one, few downplay the fact that once the wedding is over, you're gonna have to, like spend every day together and live together and all that, like, that's kinda what's gonna happen, you're gonna get to the email point, and if you have no good strategy there, maybe they get the wrong email, maybe they get a bad email, maybe they the wrong people get the email the right people don't. I mean, so. I've just seen over time, things evolve from very manual, you know, even email blasts in the later 2000s. But just a lot of like manual things that turned into you know, more automatic, you know, Oh, marketing automation and and then social media kind of like popped in there like, oh, let's switch to that. Else put all our focus there and be creative. And it's sort of like abandoned. So the budgets kind of abandoned email email was like, you know, some executives nephew that needs a job. And so he's in there like trying to write emails. So like it got pushed, even though everything points to it at some point, and I, I've just seen ever have met vast majority and our clients do VFm have come around. And we do great things in that way, where we're making that email, you know, machine work. But I've just seen over time, all these organizations just shift, like, hey, there's all this, this is exciting, this demand gen, social media, you know, paid ads, you know, let's, let's shift our time there. And then, you know, they have no idea that and we all know, because we're consumers, they have no idea that when the email finally goes out, because I saw their Instagram, and then I was their webpage, you know, that their email was so bad. And so not targeted at me that it was just embarrassing. So, intention, I hope everyone leaves this podcast, knowing that you're likely degrading your brand at some level, if you don't have any focus on email.

Brandi Starr  11:32

Yeah, I think that's a really great point. And you hit on, I think, what I was alluding to, which is, everyone wants to put their attention in whatever is the hot thing at the moment. And you're right, at one point, it was social, right now, you know, intent, and ABM, and those sorts of things are really important, are really hot topics. And so it is this, almost the look of the squirrel kind of syndrome. And email is just not sexy, like it was when it first came out, and you can automate like that was the hot thing. And then very quickly, that pass, and because it's no longer a sexy conversation, it's also not getting the effort. But I don't want to get stuck there. Because I know the big thing that we want to dive into here is the fact that the process behind email is really what unlocks the value. And Mike, that's why we have you here as senior client engagement manager, you are, you know, one of the process guys, or people to use more inclusive terms. And so I want to hear from you, because nobody thinks about email and says, yeah, if we got the right process, we're gonna nail it. You know, most people think about targeting and strategy and workflows, and you know, all of those things, and not saying those are not important. But you know, as we talk about email, flight management, and as we've seen, in our experience, as consultants, we know, it's the rigor and process behind it. That actually is the magic. So I'd like to hear a little bit from you on, why is that process so important? Like, why is that where we need to start thinking about this?

Mike Doane  13:29

Yeah, I don't think that people really realize how much goes into one single email. So that goes from the design of the email, the copy that's going into the email, and then on, on our end, a lot of what we do is building out the email, running it through multiple tests, making sure that everything's accurate. And then running through a FlightCheck making sure the segments correct, who who's gonna get this email? Making sure that the coffee is correct all the way through? Same with design? And then monitoring the email after it goes, Oh, how are the conversions? How are the how's the segment performing? That kind of thing. So it's, it's a big process just for one single email. And then when you extrapolate that through hundreds and hundreds of emails a week or hundreds of emails a month, 1000s a year, that can be a really big time sock and drain on internal resources if you don't have and this is a bit of a plug if you don't have a consultancy, like what we do, where we we have the capacity to handle those 1000s of emails, because we have the process in place.

Brandi Starr  14:44

Awesome, and I know we keep referring to EFM and email flight management's and most people listening. Don't know what that means. So I'm gonna take a second and just summarize the EFM framework. So even though we have defined this as a sort of This, no matter whether you're working with Tegrita or not, this is the process that your emails are going through. And we use the analogy, comparing it to a commercial flight. So the first phase of that is the flight plan. So that's your email marketing, strategy and design. You know, it's just like there has to be a clear flight plan, Are we flying straight? Do we need to go higher or lower? Because of potential turbulence, etc, there has to be a really defined role of email in achieving the business objectives, you know, what programs need to access, how do they support the entire journey, etc, that phase two is going to be the intake process. And that's gathering the audience data and list segmentation. You know, before any commercial flight takes off for pilot and the crew is going to go through an intake process, collect the passenger manifest, so cargo, cargo data, all these different things to make sure that everything is going to go well. Phase three is that aircraft preparation, we got to make sure the plane is working. And that is building the email program assets, man and managing the technology. So that one's pretty self explanatory. Then we have our preflight checks, and you hear that if you fly commercially, you know, pilot gets on the thing and says, you know, prepared for takeoff ready for all call, you know, the flight attendants pick up their little phones, and they say something back. That's that QA and testing process, before we push the button, how do we make sure that once we activate our email programs that they're going to do what we want, that takeoff is the activation, so the actual campaign deployment, and then once your aircraft reach 10,000 feet, so we're at cruising altitude, and we can put it on cruise control. And that's phase six, which is monitoring the ongoing program. And then finally, what goes up must come down, we have the landing. And that's where we get into analysis and optimization. And I think this is definitely the place where a lot of companies skip, you know, they're constantly in due mode, and don't have an opportunity to actually analyze and see how things went and how they went or how they should change. So I know that was a mouthful, and tried to go through that really quickly of the seven steps of the flight of an email. And so open this next question up to either of you, whoever wants to jump in,

Rolly Keenan  17:34

I add one thing to that real quick. Yeah, us made me think of something I don't mind. I don't know, if you even really like said it out loud. Even though I know it's embedded in the things that we talked about with email. But the one thing that struck me as you're telling, walking through the whole thing, is the same thing that is stressful about a flight. It's about being on time, like, you're not just on the fly, and I'm preparing it and getting ready and it was good. Like you need to leave at 705. Like it exactly 705 and email flight management, when you do the work, you can actually launch your emails exactly when you want. Because a lot of times, you know, for clients that you know, have quite a few stakeholders and have quite a few things going on. You can't just send out the store opening on Monday, you can't just send that in two weeks from now is opening Monday. Like you have to get it out. And it's the same thing as a flight, a flight can't just sit there for an extra three hours to make sure everything's good. So I just wanted to point that out that there's a timeliness to EFM. That said, just, you know, from our experience when we're doing and it's all good. And clients that don't want to invest in email, quite often just don't do very many emails, because they know they'll never get them out on time. They'll just pick what they have to get out and do those and then they don't do anything else. It's too hard. So I just wanted to point out the time is

Brandi Starr  19:09

brought that up, because that actually I want to want to double click. You said that we're gonna banish it after this conversation. All right. Um, but no, I do want to dig into that more. And you know, here we are great at beating an analogy to death. But I think the other piece of that, that probably will resonate a lot more because with or with more companies, because not everyone has the time sensitivity of, you know, a store opening, etc. But that timing piece is still really critical. Because if you think about the timing of your emails, your prospect or customer is going through some sort of journey on their own. And so Your email, you know, getting to them late or that lead getting to the salesperson late could be the difference between you being a part of the consideration set. And you being, you know, coming into an opportunity really late. And having an uphill battle to fight you sending to the wrong people could mean you're talking to the wrong contacts at the company, when they're not actually involved in the journey. Like there are all of these things that do tie to that precision of the commercial airline industry, that makes the precision of email marketing that much more important, because you think about like that buying cycle is happening, whether you're a part of it or not. And so you being able to have those right touch points at the right time, whether it be email or other channels, but having that orchestration happen all together, is really critical to actually driving pipeline. So I'm glad you brought up that point on timing, because that that is a really key component around like, how does this yield exponential growth is getting yourself a part of the considerations that when you need to be. And even on the back end, what a lot of people don't think about is customer marketing, like especially when you're in technology or something where they need to continue to repurchase, be considering leaving you and you not be aware of it or you not be able to get ahead of it. And your email programs, when automated correctly allows you to help with retention, cross sell upsell, all of those customer journeys that are consistently happening, that helps to protect the revenue that you've already secured and drive additional. So great, great points there. So Mike, I'll ask this question of you. Because I know just from having conversations with other CMOS, and people are actually, you know, who are driving the communications? The pushback that I hear is, I understand, I get it, I agree. But what you're saying is really hard. And I don't have the resources or time or skill set in many cases to make this happen. And so I'd like to hear your response to that. In terms of how does this not become an overwhelming thing, given its importance?

Mike Doane  22:45

Yeah, it is law. But it doesn't have to be overwhelming. It's like putting the correct process in place. And having the people with the expertise carry out each step of the way. It like I said it a lot. You went through six phases of of a commercial, seven phase of commercial flight and out it applies to EFM. And yeah, so it is a lot. But if you can get the right people in place, and whether that's internal or external, you put the process in place. And like we're always said, speed is important. And accuracy, I would say both of those speed and accuracy go hand in hand. And that's kind of what we've done. Like we've refined the process enough where like, we can scale exponentially the the amount of emails that go out and keep them accurate.

Brandi Starr  23:45

Yeah, and I want to dig a little deeper into what you're talking about, you're talking about an iterative process and you know, have a little bit of an inside track and seeing this stuff happened in real time for our various clients. But I think one of the things that lends well to this not being an overwhelming process, is it isn't something where you're necessarily going to go from zero to a well oiled machine all at once. And I know just from some of the clients that you and I have worked on together, that it has been an iterative process of we're going to start with getting incrementally better, like how do we do better in phases one and two are or, you know, wherever the pain is, and so talk to me a little bit about your thought process, and how you're working with our team and client teams to you know, go from wherever they are, because some of them are, you know, a hot mess and some of them have a solid start to being you know, that precision where you've got the precision and timing of a commercial flight.

Mike Doane  24:58

Yeah, it's It's not going to happen all at once. So we've we've, like you said, have developed a system over a period of years of months. And we have the expertise to put that in place. But it comes down to if it's speed, trying to limit the access time on a certain requests. So it could be adding in automation. Just refining a process to save a couple minutes here and there. Because if you can save five minutes on one request, if you have 1000 requests in a year, that's there's 1000 minutes that you're that you're saving. And then there's the other side, which is if there's mistakes that are made, learn from them, put a process in place some documentation, and then that mistake doesn't happen again. So while you don't want any mistakes, like, and we're very limited in the number that we've made, mistakes do happen, and you learn from it, and they never happen again. And that could be saving time, it could be having increased accuracy, but it's just it's an iteration. And you might be saving five minutes here and then think of something else that might save one minute. But all of these tiny things add up to a really well, refined process, a well oiled machine.

Brandi Starr  26:30

Yeah. And that that really, is it. And I think that is, there's an analogy, I was trying to think of those not coming to mind. But you know, it's like you start and you just iterate over time, so that you can get to that point, Rolly, a question for you, because you have a lot of the sales conversations around EFM. And one of the things that I hear heads of marketing, you know, debate within their own organizations, is when it comes to something like this, is it better in house versus outsourced? And obviously, you know, this is what we do. So we are a bit biased on, you know, the benefits of outsourcing. But at the same time, it is, you know, there are places where outsourcing can be effective. And so I'd like to hear your thoughts on why this kind of process is good for outsourcing versus some other areas of the business.

Rolly Keenan  27:36

Sure. Yeah. And that's, you know, so like, you're reading my mind, because I'm listening to Mike and thinking about your the answer to your question you had asked me because it's, maybe it's just time that hasn't gone by enough yet where everyone is, well, completely comfortable with? Yeah, I can't have like super creative people on my marketing team, I'm gonna hire an agency, like, I can't Why Why? Why would I think I would get the best situation from like, trying to find a creative person to just work on, you know, selling my printer ink. I will get an agency and then someone really creative, you know, is going to help help us do the very best work. And for whatever reason, email hasn't gotten there yet. It's like, oh, well, email will, like I said, you know, have John's nephew do it. But he's sent some emails, he's a millennial, you know, whatever. And they don't understand, you know, all the things Mike is talking about, and like, how complicated it really is. And maybe it's not creative, but it's highly technical. And so maybe at some point, someone's going to realize, you know, or some, our clients have realized, but more will realize, like, hey, we need to outsource this kind of thing. And to be more connected to your question. We sort of, I think, got there organically ourselves as a as a consulting firm, because it was like some, you know, a client asks us to help them with something that's kind of connected email, maybe it's integration related, maybe it's data flow related, or, you know, from interest to lead to now it's a sales call to whatever. And then slowly over time, we're doing everything because we were we replaced somebody that laughs Now they're, they've lost a couple more people a high turnover in marketing. You know, for a while there was less than a year, so turnover was over 100% for a while, right around the pandemic and I don't It's lower now, but it's not like that much lower. And, you know, then we're doing EFM, because we're running the whole thing. And so the real answer here is what we've seen work super well. And we've gotten more and more efficient with our clients around, turning things around and being fast and being more accurate is that an organization focuses on their business, you know, they've got a marketing, you know, director as an example, that is in charge of all the consumer marketing, that's all they need, because in terms of, you know, getting emails out, because they can just work with us, because they're never going to get our developer, our campaign expert, our technical expert, they're not going to build a higher that and keep them. So leverage. Same thing with the creative, they're not going to even try to duplicate a creative agency inside their business unless they're Ford Motor Company or something. So that we, I want organizations to get where some of our clients are, which is like, hey, we were experts at marketing, but we don't need to have a whole team under that director to do stuff, because they're never going to have all of our skills that we have on our consulting firm, nor should they, they would be a bloated marketing organization. So it's that it's the same, it's the same exact thing everyone already does with creative. I think we just need to get there with the technical side, be the leadership, make the decisions of what's going to work for the business. But let us handle, you know, our clients basically say, Hey, I gotta get this here, and here and here. Thanks. And it's over. And then we handle the whole thing, and then it goes out. But they made sure that the business got what it needed. They didn't have to worry about the fact that the segment isn't loading, right. And we should be sending this to 200,000 people. And every time we are about to launch, it says we're going to send it to five people say something's wrong. And for an organization, John's nephew is going to look at that and go, Ah, yeah, I don't know what's going on. And you're either gonna set it to five people, or they're gonna say, Hey, I don't know what to do here. Let's spend a week figuring it out. Whereas in our setup, and the way we build that machine, if we have a problem, you know, I was always referenced the fact we use Slack and always reference when I'm on a call talking about this, that since we started talking, I'm watching our team, our client teams handle an email, and it'd be like 80 messages, because something will be wrong. And within 60 seconds, they fix it. Because they have experts in everywhere for the team. So I think, unless you just and I'm sure there's these organizations, I would, I would argue, if someone says that this is the who they are, but I'm just gonna do you know, pretend for a second there is such a thing as an organization that doesn't really need to contact people. My like, it's okay, if we reach people, sometimes it's okay, if we don't. But like there's a level, you know, not everybody's got to get out COVID You know, message immediately. But you still want to contact people. And in a timely and accurate, you know, manner. And so I think everyone at some level needs this kind of machinery.

Brandi Starr  33:59

And I think so for those that are listening after this episode, I encourage you to go back to Episode 44, where I talked to Addy and she echoed a lot of the same points that you made Rolly around what to keep in house versus what to outsource. And I think the key thing there is that technical expertise, like real technical expertise is hard to find, and to be able to pay for and retain internally. And so whereas as a consulting firm, that is like that's our sweet spot. That's who we are recruiting, as well as people like Mike who are the process people so that you are getting that combination to be able to have that rigor, whereas things you know, in my opinion, I would rather bring in house my creative and content development, because those things are really unique to the business itself. I and someone who really knows the business knows the industry, like having those people in house, if I'm picking where I'm going to spend my headcount budget, that's where it's going to be, because those are the people that I need to be fully all in on our business, our industry, our products, etc. When it comes to the, how do we get this message out? So how do we communicate with these people, the rigor behind actually getting it done? Those are places where, you know, it's called, like going to the doctor, like certain things, you go to your primary care for other things, you pull in a specialist, and that's where I really see the tactical execution of email. And even the strategy behind where should we be communicating to whom to how do we segment, all those things that Rolly hit on their very unique skill sets that are, you know, unfortunately, not in abundance out here. If I look at, you know, I was, at a, I'd say, really key points in my career when marketing automation really became a thing. And if I look at all of those people, you know, we had a user group here in Atlanta, that was a lot of early adopters, if I look at where all of those people are, and this is, you know, small sample size, but there were 12 of us, of the 12 of us, nine of us are now in consulting, and there are three that are still client side. And so you know, these are the people with close to 20 years experience, and how to do email effectively. We've all joined the consulting side, because it is a highly technical and highly skilled skill set. You know, the other three have moved into completely different type of marketing roles that are client side. And so that's, you know, really one of the biggest places why I see that this, you know, outsourcing, that, that flight management is really key. To me, it's the difference between flying Delta and flying spirits. But we won't get on my tail.

Rolly Keenan  37:15

You know, I just take the wedding thing, because, you know, as you know, we're, we're, on and  are having a ceremony and after party and all this this summer, and I just, I just brought me to that. I mean, we're we have, you know, I have a board full of, I don't know, 10 consulting firms. One does food one does photography, one does, you know, like, I can hire them myself, and they could work for me for a couple of days. But I mean, really, like, I'm going to be able to get that level of person. No, it's not happening. And I think when it comes to specialized things that have nothing to do with the business, I mean, sending out a great email for a, you know, a manufacturer of you know, industrial printers, their expertise is not how to technically connect data and get emails out like that. That has nothing to do with your business. I love photography, but I have nothing, no idea what I'm doing. And I'm reminded of that, when I talked to him, my photographer that I hired, right, like, so. I think there's, I think there's like, I think, Well, I think that there is a point of just everybody needs to be honest and truthful about it, which is, quite often the head of marketing, if they're in a growth driven business, like timeline driven, like private equity, venture capital. And that's a lot of folks that we come in contact with, because it's a big part of the big part of the economy. There, they'll just tell you, sort of, on the side, if as long as it's not forever, the people like hey, we email people, we're not supposed to email. We, we just buy lists, we, you know, I have to send X number of emails, so that when we report to the board, we can tell them we sent those emails, whether they made it anywhere or not. I would like to say I care about that. I don't I just need when we report to the board that we look good. Like we look like we're doing they're doing our job. We're not going to be for more than two years anyway. So there's a little bit of like truth to like, hey, Rolly, I get it.

Brandi Starr  39:45

It looks like you're having some audio issues there. But I'll go ahead and keep moving forward. I think you're muted. But talking about our challenges is just the first step and nothing changes. If nothing changes, and so, in traditional therapy, the therapist will give the client some homework here at revenue rehab, we like to flip that on its head and ask you to give us some homework. So Mike, I will start with you, what is your one thing? If someone is trying to figure out how they start to put more rigor behind their email programs? What is the first step? And I always try to make it something that, you know, can be done relatively immediately? And not necessarily, you know, six month projects? Where do people start? What's your one?

Mike Doane  40:37

Well, being the process guy, I would say, take a hard look at the steps of your email, like start to finish writing, copy building, just looking at the segment and everything like that, I would make sure that you have the all the necessary steps in there. And really, you can kind of branch out and take a deeper dive individually, but I look holistically at the entire process.

Brandi Starr  41:07

Okay, so for everyone listening, get someone on your team to actually write out for you what the execution process is, so that you can look at it and see where you know, what is your starting point. So I love that, it's always important to know where we're starting from if we're trying to do better, Rolly, hopefully, we can hear you now. What's your one?

Rolly Keenan  41:37

I would just say to look at operating budgets, and budgets overall, and where are you putting your investment? And does that actually make sense? Are you just doing that because that's what you usually do or think you should do? Maybe just look at it and and see where you where the importance is placed.

Brandi Starr  42:05

Awesome. So we got a two for one. Today, we're gonna look at our budgets. And we're going to look at our process. And I do think that that is a great place to start. Well, Mike and Rolly. I've enjoyed our discussion. But that's our time for today. Rolly, I always like to give our guests the opportunity to do a shameless plug. And I'd be remiss if I did not let you do the same. So if anyone listening is considering they're like, Yeah, I need tiger to just handle this for me. Tell me what does that look like?

Rolly Keenan  42:41

Well, they can reach out, they'll see a link to me on LinkedIn, they can reach out on LinkedIn to find the time to talk. And we can discuss you know where you are, and what might make sense for you. So I was just say, Find me on LinkedIn. And I'm probably the only aro ll y that you'll ever see on LinkedIn. So I'm pretty easy to find.

Brandi Starr  43:02

Awesome. Well, thank you both so much for joining me today. And thanks, everyone, for joining us. I hope that you have enjoyed my conversation with Rolly and Mike, I can't believe we're at the end. We'll see you next time.

Outro VO  43:20

You've been listening to Revenue Rehab with your host, Brandi Starr. Your session is now over but the learning has just begun. join our mailing list and catch up on all our shows at revenuerehab.live. We're also on Twitter and Instagram at revenue. This concludes this session. We'll see you next week.