Filling the Void: Strategies to Overcome the Executive Competency Gap

Intro VO  00:05

Welcome to revenue rehab, your one stop destination for collective solutions to the biggest challenges faced by marketing leaders today. Now head on over to the couch, make yourself comfortable and get ready to change the way you approach revenue. Leading your recovery is modern marketer, author, speaker and Chief Operating Officer at Tegrita Brandi Starr

Brandi Starr  00:34

Hello, hello hello and welcome to another episode of revenue rehab. I am your host, Brandi Starr and we have another amazing episode for you today, I am joined by Abby Williams. Abby has spent over 20 years in VC and PE backed companies of varying sizes in the SAS b2b space such as Oracle Mehta, LinkedIn, pool, Pluralsight, ooh, Demi, and Olivia as a revenue leader. She also has excelled in driving sustainable profitability for businesses, improving bottom and top line revenue performance for scaleups. She is the author of the book 10 traits of great leadership that are often overlooked, where she talks through a playbook for leaders and aspiring leaders who want to be outstanding in their role. Abby's mantra is see a diamond in every stone and make your environment better than you met it. This is her driving force. Welcome to revenue rehab. Abby, your session begins now.

Abi Williams  01:42

Hey, Brandi, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Brandi Starr  01:45

It is great to have you. And I absolutely love that mantra. Because, you know, that is the the example of the diamond is a great one where you have to, you know, take something seemingly ordinary to get something extraordinary out of it. Well, before we jump into our topic today, I like to break the ice with a little woosah moment that I call buzzword banishment. So tell me what industry buzzword would you like to get rid of forever?

Abi Williams  02:22

Can we double click on that? Oh? Like, What? What? What is that?

Brandi Starr  02:31

Yes, that is one. I don't even know where that one came from. Like why people started using it in real, you know, in conversation, because it does confuse me like we're not clicking, we're talking.

Abi Williams  02:46

Right. Right. You public. It's a mouthful, actually. Can you double click on that it doesn't even flow. So

Brandi Starr  02:54

yes, I am so so you don't have to worry about me trying to double click on anything during our conversation today. Well, now that we've gotten that off our chest, tell me what brings you to revenue rehab today.

Abi Williams  03:12

Okay, apart from the amazing things I've heard about this show and yourself, Brandy. For me, it's really the gap that we see in CEOs and executive leadership today and what we can do about it, oftentimes, you know, you have somebody who's running the company, and so on, and you're trying to do so many things. And that lack of competency is causing the business to fail, is causing you to lose talent is causing the talent that you have not to be optimized and deliver the best productivity. So it's causing a lot of loss, loss, loss loss loss due to due to the inability of exact level, understanding their strengths and filling those voids that we talked about. So to wrap that up, it's about building solid foundations for success.

Brandi Starr  04:02

Awesome. And I definitely can relate. I'm in a Slack community of other CMOs and peers, and one of my favorite channels is the rants channel, where you know, everyone's able to just get stuff off their chest. I love a lot of what you see people ranting about, I would put under, you know some of these competencies, so I'm looking forward to diving into it so that our audience can make sure that they're not the problem. We can all do our part. And I believe in setting intentions. It gives us focus, it gives us purpose and most importantly, it gives our audience an expectation of what we're going to cover today or what they should take away. So I'd love to hear what are your intentions? What are your best hopes for our talk today?

Abi Williams  04:54

My hopes for today is for every CEO to know exactly. Klee what it takes to lead a successful business? Oftentimes, we talk about it from bottoms up. But today we're going to talk about it from top down in order to drive a successful business.

Brandi Starr  05:12

Awesome. So my first question for you really is, why do you think the problems exist? Like, let's kind of lay the foundation of how do we get here? Because you kind of think about, by the time someone gets to the VP or above level, they've been in their career for quite some time. The average is 45, or 50. And above so new in your career, why do you think these competencies still exists that far in?

Abi Williams  05:46

Yeah, so a couple of things. First thing is that lack of diversity. So we have people in these rooms who sound the same, who looked the same, who went to the same school who did the same things the same way, again, and again, and again, that doesn't necessarily work in this context, or with this generation. That's number one. Number two, it's that ability to you know, oftentimes I see leaders, as they go up in their career, they stop learning. It's like, Oh, I've got this. I'm the CEO and the VP, so I must know what I'm doing. It's that humility to be able to learn, unlearn, and relearn. So Well, what we're seeing is that lack of adaptability, that lack of that lack of coachability, to learn, unlearn, and relearn. And then the third thing is just that mindset of doing the same thing again and again, and hoping for different results. And again, it's tied to point one around looking outside your network. What else is there? What else can I learn? What can I do online, getting coaches to help you see those roadblocks? And it's really back to that learning mindset. And knowing that you don't know it all? I don't, nobody knows. We're all trying to figure this out.

Brandi Starr  06:59

Right? Yeah. And I, you know, one of my number one strength is I'm definitely a lifelong learner. And I personally feel like if I'm not learning something, then I am stagnant. And that is like the worst. But I recognize that everyone doesn't have that mentality. And so I want to dig in a little bit and talk about the lack of diversity, because this is something that has come up in multiple conversations recently, and not that it doesn't come up all the time. But where I've seen, you know, there's there's a much larger push to get women, especially minority women on boards, there is a lot more, especially with the younger generation evaluation of when they're looking at roles, senior leadership, and you know, what's the diversity mix of that leadership to determine when they want to go into companies, like all of these things are playing, you know, a much bigger role. And I do, you know, I naturally believe in the good in people. So I believe that most people are not inherently racist or biased, or, you know, whatever. But there doesn't seem to be a natural kindling of the right word like, but there doesn't seem to be like a natural miss, not that that's really a real word to trying to diversify your networks, and the people that are in your ear. And I've never really understood why it's like, if people are good people, like, what is it that creates that, you know, that homogenous circle of like, these are the people I know, and I'm just gonna stay here.

Abi Williams  08:55

So a couple of things, its comfort zone, it's easy. You know, if I want to hire a CEO, I just call my, my friend, hey, you know, I don't hire CEO, a CEO, or CRO or VP, I just call my friend, somebody, my network. And my network probably looks like me, it's probably a friend that I went to school with. So that's the easiest thing to do versus look outside and actually think out of the box. Right? So that's number one. Number two is people like people that are similar to them. So you know, for me, when I'm hiring executives, I think about I intentionally think about what are the skills that I have? And what are the skills that are needed in this team to help the business achieve X impact. And that's part of the the voice that we're seeing in executive teams. Because when we look at the makeup of executive teams, they all look the same. They all come from similar backgrounds and so on, and that's why we're getting feeling results. Even when you look at boards as well. The boards are not diverse, you know, we need to look at board look at boards that are that have operators in your space. Um, that are diverse and can bring this rich perspectives, right? So it's really that laziness of doing what is easy. You know, and then also, the last last thing I'd say on that is what I believe that we should start doing is have consequences, because we've spoken about this with data has shown the impact that diversity has on revenue, not that we even need to prove quantify it, right. But data has shown that it's good for business, you know, it's good for revenues, and so on, but we're still seeing a slow movement. So again, back to the C level, when it's the having consequences, because some people just won't change except as a consequence. For example, for a sales leader or VP, you have a goal that you need to achieve, right? So you drive your team to achieve that goal in in revenue goals, or go to market goals, we have revenue goals, you know, you have employees satisfaction, you know, goals that are key for a manager or VP to achieve. Where is the diversity goal? What's the goal to ensure that your team or your executive team or a diverse team, you know, in order to get the best results?

Brandi Starr  11:11

Yeah, I love that. And I realized I dive deep because diversity is something that, you know, is close to my heart, especially being a black woman in a leadership position. You know, I see some of the challenges, I've experienced them. But I do want to step back a bit because, you know, we're talking about filling the void. What are some of the competencies that you know, so if thinking about my listeners, moster heads of marketing heads of revenue? Yeah. What are some of the competency gaps that exist? Like, help me, you know, if I'm trying to self evaluate on if I've got these gaps myself? What are some of those?

Abi Williams  11:52

Yeah, so the first one, I'd say is diagnosis and self awareness. So it's really that self awareness, as a CEO, as a CRO to say, Okay, what do I know? And what don't I know? That alone is powerful? And then what am I going to do to fill in that gap? Is it that I need to hire a fractional CRO or I need to hire a coach and so on, right, because what we find is, people just keep doing what they've always done. It's really about taking that step back to do that diagnosis and self awareness for yourself and your executive team. Second piece is really, what I find in a lot of when I speak to a lot of executives is the teams are surrounded with a lot of strategists, everybody that has great ideas, but nobody wants to execute. Right. And oftentimes, the best leaders are great at greater strategy and great and execution, they can go 50 foot 50,000 feet, and they can go 500 feet, right, that ability to do both is key in an executive. And that's some of the gaps that we see right now is that some executives either have one or the other. And this is a skill that can be learned, if we lean into it. Shall I keep going? Because

Brandi Starr  13:10

I have, as I say, I once I, once, once you give me all your points, I'll figure out where I want to dig in. These are all

Abi Williams  13:18

okay. And then the other piece I touched on earlier is how we build in this boards, right? So again, you know, if you're intentionally building a board, that can challenge you, that is diverse, they can call you out and say, Listen, this skill is lacking, what are we going to do to bridge this gap for the success of the business, it's not personal to you as a CEO, but it's for the success of the business. So really, building a diverse board around you and utilizing the board. You know, oftentimes I see CEOs, you know, everything is amazing. They don't want to, you know, you don't want to open up yourself to the board. You know, everything is awesome, but it's not. You know, that's why the you know, these are people that have invested in your business, they need to know that listen, things are not going right. But here's what we're doing about it, for example, you know, talking to the CEO the other day, and we're talking about his presentation to the board, and we saw that he's there, we're still getting new business, however, the average deal size was reducing. And I'm like, that's a that's a good story. You're still getting new business. Yes, the average deal size is reducing. But over time, as we keep that client and so on, we can grow that average deal size, you know, through the retention strategy, that's a story not to hide away from because that is the reality and we have a plan to do something about it. Right. So so it's really about not hiding the stuff that is doesn't look so good, but being real about it being pragmatic and realistic, not just to the board to your employees as well. You know, we have so many CEOs who have told the employees Hey, The thing is awesome. We got money in the bank, we got money in the bank, the next week, there was layoffs. It's like, what are we saying? What are we doing right. And to wrap that up, it's really about ensuring that your stakeholders are part of the problem, so that they can be a part of the solution. When I see your stakeholders, your board, your employees, your team's your executive leadership, that vulnerability as a CRO to go CEO to go listen, here's the problem, here's what I'm concerned about. How do we solve it? So include people in the problem so that they can be a part of the solution? And then the last one, that out? Well, it's not the last one. But that piece of feedback is so important. Because, you know, find a lot of CEOs. And when I asked them about the business, about the product about their teams, they say, yeah, it's going well, and I'm like, How do you know, oh, because you know, I build a great product, or I'm running a great business. But how do you know. And I say that to save as your community decides how you're doing, they determine how you're doing. When I say community, I mean, your your users of your solution, your customers, your employees, they decide how you're doing, whether you're doing well, or not so well. So that ability to reach out, come out of your comfort zone and get that feedback, and not just get it, but listen to it and adapt accordingly. is a key recipe for success.

Brandi Starr  16:22

Awesome, you gave me some great places that I want to dig in. And one of them ties into what you were saying about building a board and feedback kind of rolling those together. And I think a lot of people think about like you have your company board, like that's obvious, you have an accountability to that board. But I do think that there is also a key value in building a board of people around you, that are not necessarily the board of your company, because you think about like every company doesn't have a board. But like having that group of people that you can tap into with your challenges, and making sure that they are diverse, and pulling in people from all levels. Because I do think that one thing that I see with a lot of leaders is they don't necessarily see the value of having people that are air quotes lower than them as a part of the decision making criteria. But going back to what you said around bridging that gap between strategy and execution, you got doers that are a part of the decision conversation. There are things that are escalated, or perspectives that are brought that wouldn't be brought otherwise. Um,

Abi Williams  17:49

absolutely. And that's why, you know, when I when I speak to CEOs, I say today ask, When last did you actually go and prospect? When last did you apply for a job in your own company to understand what your application processes and your onboarding processes when lost and you joined the onboarding session? When last? Did you actually try and sell a deal so that you can understand your, your selling process and the buyers journey? When must you do that? That is so key. And that helps with execution?

Brandi Starr  18:22

Yeah, look at I've seen some companies that really take this to heart. I'm here in the southern part of the US in Atlanta, and Waffle House is really big. And it's basically a 24 hour breakfast spot, like a greasy spoon, kind of you know, like the salt and pepper shakers are gonna stick to the table. Like, it's that kind of space, but everybody loves it. And one of the things that they require of everyone in their corporate office is there's so many days, I think they have to spend a week every year working in an actual restaurant. And they have to do the various roles. So you know, you're gonna have a VP of Marketing who is like trying to get the hashbrowns, smothered and covered and you know, all the things so that they have that same perspective that you're saying. And I do think that you can get to a level where some of that is lost, where you forget, because we all usually started there. But you can get to the point where you forget.

Abi Williams  19:29

Absolutely, that job rotation is so key. And, you know, some CEOs are like, Well,

Brandi Starr  19:34

I'm too busy.

Abi Williams  19:35

But I'm like, well, your goal is revenue and happy customers. And these activities. What are you doing? I asked what Tell me about your day to day, what are you actually doing? Because these are activities that tie to the success of the outcome that you're trying to achieve? You know, oftentimes, we see that CEOs don't understand the revenue model. They don't understand the revenue model. Right? I don't understand it. So therefore, you know, when you're presenting at a board level or you're talking about your business, yes, okay, maybe you've outsourced it to a CRO or VP and so on or marketing, but it's key that you understand it, because this is how you can shape the success of your company, where it is today and where it can be tomorrow. This is where you can shape the success of your products, you can shape the success of your people, as the CEO, as this this leader, and bring that downstream.

Brandi Starr  20:34

Yeah, it does amaze me of how many leaders don't understand their revenue model, like we've gone through, like one of the things that we do at Tegrita is helping to map end to end the marketing efforts through how the deals work, how the systems work together, how you track everything. And when we've gone into some of those conversations, it has, like always astounded me, where you'll have people it's like, okay, you do this in marketing? What is sales? See, in terms of what how they got to them? And they're like, I don't know, how do you not know? Like, how have you never thought about we're doing these things? What information? Does our sales team even know about these things? Like the fact that some of these conversations, even within revenue leaders don't happen? It's kind of no surprise that it doesn't make it to the sea level.

Abi Williams  21:33

Yeah. And brandy, you know, what, what's connected to that, and something I'm really passionate about is, as a CEO, it's your job to ensure that your go to market team go together to go to market together. Right? You know, and you know, oftentimes, you know, when I'm working with CEOs, we, I talked about one goal, like, at the end of the day, actually, everybody in the business has one goal, which is happy customers, and happy employees, when that is aligned, everything else comes together, right? Marketing gets there in a different way, sales gets in a different way, ces gets things a different way. But it's important that everybody is aligned to that one goal that we're all trying HR gets there in a different way, what is the same goal we're all trying to achieve? It's just that we were different part of the cube to get through that main cube and that main goal, right. And I think, you know, it's the CEOs responsibility to set that tone and build that foundation of that one, goal harmony.

Brandi Starr  22:34

I love that. And I agree, like, you know, we wrote our book about one revenue team, but I do agree that holistically, like as a company, we all have to focus on the same thing, I want to go back to your point about self awareness. Because in thinking about filling the void, in my opinion, you know, from just my own career observations, self awareness is probably one of the biggest competency gaps that I see. And you know, being a consultant, I work across a lot of different businesses. And there is definitely a lack of awareness, not just even in what skills you lack. But even in just how you naturally operate, and where that may hinder you. Yes. And, you know, like I even I look at myself, I definitely know that I am more self aware than most. And we have like, one of my roles that is counter to me is our client engagement role. And when we have new people start, I always am very clear with them about this is how I work. And this is where that creates some problems. So that they are like, I know, I always have 1000 things going on. So sometimes I don't pick up on some of the subtle problems. Yes, and I can help you solve the problems, but I need you to bring them to me, okay, recognize that this is a blind spot, just based on who I am as a person. And, you know, being able to articulate that, you know, especially because of that the C title sometimes, you know, those that are a bit more junior are, you know, uncomfortable being like, Hey, this is a problem. I'm the problem. And so I like to have that conversation. Like I need you to tell me like, Yeah, but I need you to escalate whatever it is. And so it is some of those things of like, you know, sometimes just who we are as leaders and how we operate, creates challenges and if you don't have that self awareness, then you can enable your team to go around it so I'd love to hear a bit more in one. How do you help people recognize when they're not self aware, because people who aren't self aware don't know that they're not self aware of an issue. And so how do you help people understand if that is them? And how do you overcome that? How do you become more self aware?

Abi Williams  25:14

Yeah. So that's the million dollar question right there. It starts with, you know, you find people, when there's an opinion that's contrasting to what they think you find, you know, they start to get itchy problems that arise, right. And, you know, it's really that reflex, you know, when I coach people, I teach them around that reflex in terms of when you find, like, maybe you have a belief about something, and somebody seen something that's totally opposite to your belief, this is the moment to actually lean in, and allow ourselves to explore, I don't have to agree. But the piece that I need to do is allow myself, my body, my physical body, my mental space, my spiritual space, allow myself without no attachment, to explore what this person has just said, and try to find the diamond in the stone. That's the piece. And after that exploration, I might still come back to the same conclusion that, you know, I don't agree, I think there's a better way or whatever. But that piece of allowing yourself, that's the piece that most of the time we fight with, we don't even allow ourselves to explore, you know, so So that's the piece in terms of how I think it you know, it's a situation of, you can't help somebody that doesn't want to be helped. Oftentimes, I see CEOs or leaders, be more coachable when things have gone wrong. When it's been a disaster, we don't have to wait for a disaster to help them, for us to build on our personality. And the third thing is, it's really coming from that mindset of, I'm always in work in progress. So if I believe that I'm always a work in progress, then I'm constantly working on myself, knowing that there is no place that of completion, there is no place of completion. It's an ongoing development of my personality.

Brandi Starr  27:21

Yeah, that it and you hit on something that I kind of skimmed some of the content from your book, and one of the things that jumped out at me that I think is so important, and you kind of just hit on it, which is being comfortable with being uncomfortable, because you are right, in those moments where there is friction, you do feel it, like, you know, you might get the heart race or you start to be uncomfortable in your seats. And it's like there is a physical reaction. Absolutely. And most people just try to avoid that physical reaction. And I do think, you know, and I learned very similar strategies to you in therapy. So my, you know, my way of how I became more self aware, was through, you know, Behavioral Therapy, or CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. And that was one of the things when you feel that uncomfortableness, be able to sit in it. Yeah. Ask yourself like, why am I uncomfortable? You know, why am I having this reaction? Is it because I fundamentally disagree? Is it because it's different? Is it because it's going to stretch me? And so that being able to be comfortable with being uncomfortable, like to me if I had to take any one thing away from what I've learned from you in trying to fill the void. Like, that's the underlying thing, in order to do all of the other things. And so, I'd like you to speak just a little bit more about that getting comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Abi Williams  29:01

Yeah, I'm, you know, I'm based in Ireland. And oftentimes, I'm the only one that looks like me, and sounds like me, in many rooms, over my career and so on. And, you know, I remember having a conversation with a leadership team, and, you know, in one of my previous organization, and one day, I said, Listen, have you any of you ever thought about the fact that I am the only one that looks like me? And sounds like me, in this organization? Oof, everybody became very aloof, why she bringing this up? Why are we even talking about this, but it was something that I just wanted to bring to their awareness because I don't think they've ever thought about it. Because, you know, Well, friends, you know, well, you know, colleagues and so on, and everything is great, but yeah, but it was a realization that a lot of people hadn't even thought about and, you know, busy brings me also too, you know, times where you have performance management, conversation, you need to fire somebody and so on. It's all uncomfortable, or you need to give feedback, or you need to, you know, Somebody gives you feedback. It's uncomfortable, it will never be comfortable actually.

Brandi Starr  30:07

Yeah. And it's, it's so difficult. And I do think that self awareness goes with that piece of like, it's okay. Like, just, you know, it's it's not the end of the world being uncomfortable, you push through it, you get through that, that awkwardness, and,

Abi Williams  30:26

but you know what, it's really about being attached to the outcome, the impact that you're trying to drive, for example, I'm very introverted, but a lot of people don't know, because I do a lot of public speaking, you know, I'm out there, you know, as a, as a revenue leader, and so on and so forth, engage with a lot of C level executives, and so on, right. But it's not actually about me, or how I feel because I'm attached to the message, and I'm trying to get across to the people that can help the people. This is why I'll speak out in a room where other people wouldn't speak because they're thinking about, Oh, how do I sound? Is this gonna come across X way or that way, but I'm more attached to Okay, I need to say this, because this is going to help drive X impact. So actually, I'll be doing a disservice by holding it back. I feel uncomfortable, yes. But I'm still doing what I need to do or what needs to be done, despite how I feel.

Brandi Starr  31:22

Awesome. So talking about our challenges is just the first step and nothing changes if nothing changes. And so in traditional therapy, the therapist gives the client some homework, but here at revenue rehab, we like to flip that on its head and ask you to give us some homework. And so I'd like if you could summarize your key takeaways for how leaders can fill this void? And give us all are one thing if we're feeling like we've got some of these competency gaps, what's our first step?

Abi Williams  31:57

You know, I don't know if you can see my fingers. I don't know who taught me this. I don't know if it's, uh, I can't remember who where this came from. But when you're pointing fingers or somebody else, remember that this time is pointing back at you. And what that means is that success and failure starts with you. So in order to drive change, you need to look at yourself first and say, What am I learning? What do I need to unlearn? And what do I need to relearn? It starts from you. So it's really about us being the change that we want to see. So for SEO, for example, who wants to drive a great business? Or who wants to increase their revenue? or increase the, you know, customer success rate? It's really looking at you how am I exemplifying this? How am I showing up first? It's not about oh, my VPS not is not it's not good enough? It needs to be sacked. No. How are you coaching your VP? How are you showing up? What do you know to help your VP rise? And if you don't know, what are you doing to fill that gap? So again, remember the moment you find yourself pointing out anything? Oh, it's my team. It's the board. I'm trying to figure out where's my money? Oh, it's my team. It's the board, the other fingers pointing at you. So remember that change starts with you success. That's review and failures. That's review.

Brandi Starr  33:16

I love it. So what's our one thing? What's our action item?

Abi Williams  33:20

Check yourself.

Brandi Starr  33:25

Super simple is like yourself. So yeah, to kind of do that that self evaluation of where are your gaps? And where do you need to I love the learn, unlearn, relearn. So figuring that out is going to be the first step. That's a great action, which is sounds super simple. Not always simple, but definitely a great start. Well, Abby, I have enjoyed our discussion. But that's our time for today. But before we go, I'd love to hear you tell our audience how they can connect with you. And also tell us a little bit about the book, I like to end with a little shameless plug, because I think for anyone saying this competency gap, at least from what I've seen of your book, so far, it is a great resource. So go ahead and tell us a little bit how we can stay connected.

Abi Williams  34:20

Yes, so I live on LinkedIn. So reach out to me on LinkedIn, I'm always there. And in regards to the book, if you want to be the greatest leader that you can be because really leadership is about understanding people and what makes them tick. Right? What is their uniqueness in order to get the best out of them? So as a CEO, as a VP, as a leader, whatever top level of leader that you are your customers or people, your employees or people, your users or people we've not gotten to the space where you know AI is you are chatting P can replace people, right? So your whole stakeholders are people. So to be a great leader, it's about understanding people dynamics, and how you can use that to drive great results. So yeah, if you want to know more about that, check out the book, and let me know your thoughts.

Brandi Starr  35:17

Awesome. Well, we will make sure to link to your LinkedIn as well as the book. So wherever you are watching or listening this podcast to this podcast, check out the show notes, and the links will be there so that you can stay connected with Abby. Well, Abby, thanks so much for joining me. I really appreciate especially I know you're my first guest from Ireland, which is super cool. I have crossed the pond. What an achievement. Yes. And thanks, everyone, for joining us. I hope that you have enjoyed my conversation with Abby. I can't believe we're at the end. We'll see you next time.

Outro VO  35:59

You've been listening to Revenue Rehab with your host Brandi Starr. Your session is now over but the learning has just begun. join our mailing list and catch up on all our shows at revenue rehab dot live. We're also on Twitter and Instagram at revenue rehab. This concludes this week's session. We'll see you next week.