From Data to Deals: Strategies for Aligning Marketing and Sales to Drive Revenue

Brandi Starr [00:00:34]:
Hello, hello, hello and welcome to another episode of Revenue Rehab. I am your host, Brandi Starr, and we have another amazing episode for you today. I am joined by Jason Kramer. Jason is the founder of Cultivise, a consulting firm that specializes in b two b lead nurturing strategies and technology. With 15 years of experience running a creative agency, Jason identified revenue gaps in marketing and sales funnels for distributors, service providers, marketing agencies and manufacturers. He launched cultivise to provide custom solutions and empower businesses to connect prospect and customer data with marketing campaigns and sales team activities. When not strategizing in CRM, he enjoys family time with his wife, two kids and two dogs in their lively New York home. Jason, welcome to revenue rehab.

Brandi Starr [00:01:29]:
Your session begins now.

Jason Kramer [00:01:32]:
Hey, Brandy, thank you for having me.

Brandi Starr [00:01:35]:
I am excited to talk to you. We've got a lot in common in terms of our backgrounds in marketing. But before we jump into that, I like to break the ice with a little woosa moment that I call buzzword banishment. So tell me, what industry buzzword would you like to get rid of forever?

Jason Kramer [00:01:55]:
Well, I think it's a non specific one, but it's unique.

Brandi Starr [00:02:02]:
That's an interesting one to get rid of. Why would you like to get rid of unique?

Jason Kramer [00:02:08]:
Well, because everybody says they're unique. And so it's kind of, to me, a vague word, because what does unique really mean? We all try to stand out and be different, and I think that it's, you know, it's used in a very nondescript way, and especially when it comes to content and sales marketing. And I just feel like it's a word that doesn't carry much weight.

Brandi Starr [00:02:33]:
Okay. I said, well, at least for this conversation, I can vow to put it in the box and throw away the key, and I won't talk about being unique today. So now that we've gotten that off our chest, tell me, what brings you to revenue rehab today?

Jason Kramer [00:02:50]:
So what brings me here is a, you mentioned before about, you know, with the intro about the gap that I kind of, you know, discovered not, you know, in any significant way that other people didn't also find that gap. But what brought me here today was really the disjointed connection between marketing and sales teams. Getting those two teams to not only talk together, but to share data for the greater good of the company, which is to gain better quality leads and to drive revenue. That's what it's all about for me.

Brandi Starr [00:03:24]:
Awesome. Well, I do know that, yeah, there are definitely all sorts of challenges around that. And I know that you have a unique perspective on how those groups can better utilize CRM to make some of that happen. And so as we go into this discussion, I believe in setting intentions. It gives us focus, it gives us purpose, and most important, it gives our audience an understanding of what they should expect from our discussion. So what would you like people to take away from our conversation today?

Jason Kramer [00:03:56]:
I think there's a couple of things. First, one, Brandi, is, you know, think about what are you doing today to really reflect on the things you're doing. I always use the example of most smart, you know, well rounded people would not invest in any type of stock market or investments without looking at the results. So the first thing I would encourage is if you're investing marketing dollars, whether you're the CMO or a business owner listening, whoever it might be, take stake on what are the results we're getting besides just, you know, the glorified results of how many leads we got? Because ultimately, that, to me, isn't really results. Right. The second thing I think also is what are you using in terms of technology for the company, both on the sales and marketing side? What we often see is that a lot of companies will just buy software, and sometimes it's $50 a month, who cares? Or it's thousands of dollars a month, but it goes unchecked. So what I encourage people do is if you have access, look at the bank statement or talk to the CFO and say, can I get an itemized list of everything we're spending money on every month? And then figure out, are you actually using that piece of technology, technology or not to value? Right.

Brandi Starr [00:05:02]:
Yeah. And I want to start with that second point because I do think that that is so important because I have seen, you know, we've helped clients do sort of these audits of like, what do they have? How are they using? Are they using it effective? And it always amazes me how often something comes up that most people didn't even know that they had, that, you know, some small group or one person is using, even had a scenario where we were about to start working with procurement to get approval to purchase a technology. And then they were like, I think this other group already owns it. And turned out they did. And they had, like, all these licenses that were unused, and it was like, how do we not know? Like, we've been vying for this thing for two years, and you guys already bought it. And so I do want to talk a little bit about that in terms of, like, why that is so important. You know, it's not just an exercise in spend, because I do think that that's what people think about is, how are we, you know, spending our marketing dollars effectively on the technology. But I'd love to hear your perspective, like, more strategically in terms of, like, really focusing on getting the job of marketing or really the job of revenue done.

Brandi Starr [00:06:19]:
Like, why is it important to dig in and look at the technologies that you have?

Jason Kramer [00:06:25]:
So, I mean, the one thing to me is about the data, right? So if you have multiple systems and your data is living in multiple places, what we often see in companies, you probably seen it too, brandy, is that there's no source of truth, right? So if they have an ERP system, they have another system for accounting, they have another system for their CRM, and there is multiple sets of data, right, for the same customer in all these different places, and nothing's connected. No one knows what is the most updated information. And so I think that becomes a real hindrance, especially if a company is a deal in any significant volume of data. You're really serving a disservice to not only to your customer, but also to your team, you know, because it's quite embarrassing. Just an example would be if a salesperson was reaching out and didn't know that person just placed an order a month ago. Oh, we're following up, mister so and so. Mister Johnson, we haven't heard from you in a while. What are you talking about? We just placed an order last month.

Jason Kramer [00:07:25]:
It comes across that you're disjointed as a company, and it starts making Mister Jones start thinking, okay, am I doing business with the right company? Should I be going to somebody that's more buttoned up? So I think that that's really important is the data aspect. And the other aspect, too, is just productivity in general, you know? Again, if you have different systems, what we often seen is that you have individuals at that company that are manually exporting data and then updating it to another system where sales managers asking for reports, and that report isn't accessible. So what are they doing, Brandi? They're downloading different data from different systems, putting them into a spreadsheet, hoping that everything's correct, hoping there's no humane errors, which we both know there always is, accidentally and it takes a lot of time. So if you start thinking about how many hours is my team or my individual person here at the company spending doing all these manual tasks, you know, because of these inefficiencies, and it starts really ramping up, and it's quite alarming.

Brandi Starr [00:08:29]:
Yeah, the. The data piece of it, I definitely would agree. And it seems like there is just this consensus that dirty data or incomplete data is just a thing that is. And, you know, everybody just kind of accepts, like, yeah, you know, I talked to so many people that are like, yeah, our data is not the greatest. And it just is like, well, are you working on fixing it? And it's like, well, you know, sorta. And there it just. It's almost like one of those things that you just like that people have just kind of accepted as this is. You know, it is what it is, which is a buzzword that's been banished, I think, a couple times.

Brandi Starr [00:09:09]:
And so I agree completely with you, like, getting that data to where it flows between systems and you feel like you can actually rely on it and have that source of truth is so important.

Jason Kramer [00:09:21]:
Nobody wants to deal with it, really. I mean, you know, it's like telling my twelve year old daughter, you know, you need to go clean your room. And she's like, but, dad, I'll do it later. I'll do it later. And she keeps procrastinating, right? Because ultimately she's like, it's fine. It's my room. What is. Okay.

Jason Kramer [00:09:33]:
You know, who cares? And, like, so, I mean, it's the same thing with the data. I mean, as silly as it sounds, this company's like, yeah, but it's like, what does it matter? Well, it does matter. And, like, it's. But it takes a commitment, right? And that's the biggest thing, I think, Brandi, is that, you know, for anybody listening today is like, you just have to do it. And maybe it's, you know, it's overwhelming, and certainly it can be. But break it into silos. We usually start. Okay, well, like, we're in August right now, so if we're taking on a new client, we'll say, let's go back for the last six months, if we can, or the back until January 1, and let's look at that data.

Jason Kramer [00:10:08]:
And then once all that's cleaned up, then we'll go back to 2023. Then we'll go back to 2022 if we can. And that might take some time, but you're breaking it into smaller segments, which is a lot more manageable than trying to look at data for the last 510, 20 years.

Brandi Starr [00:10:24]:
Yeah, that is a good point. And so then I want to shift back to the first point that you made in terms of making the effort to reflect. And I want to think about it holistically, because I do think that most marketing departments do have some form of reflection where they are looking at data, what's working, what's not. I would say the sales teams do the same, but where I see the breakdown very consistently is in that feedback loop between them. And so I'd love to hear some of your thoughts in terms of what should people be doing to really reflect as a whole revenue team, as opposed to just looking at how individual efforts are performing.

Jason Kramer [00:11:13]:
Yeah, and I would actually, you know, I used the word argue. This is a strong word, but I did say it is, that it's not more about the individual results, is more about the collective results. So what we look for, and we set up with the systems we use for clients is, you know, what is the origins of that lead? Where did they come from? That's to us, that the critical component at the beginning of the journey, did they come from a Google Ad campaign? If so, which one? Did they come from a trade show? If so, which one? Webinar, etcetera. Even networking, we have a lot of clients that build business through strategic relationships. So if Jason is sending us a lot of leads, then we might think, oh, Jason's a great referral partner. But if we don't know if those leads are actually closing and how much we're actually generating in terms of revenue, Jason might be sending us really bad leads. And it may not be Jason's fault. And maybe we need to educate Jason on the better types of leads we need.

Jason Kramer [00:12:10]:
So I think that's the first step, is most CRM systems have a way to track that origin of where did the lead come from. The more sophisticated ones can do it automatically. They can see the referring URL from a LinkedIn post or whatever, and they could tag it as LinkedIn organic. We even often do some things. Another example I use brandy. We just started working with a roofing company in New Hampshire. Been around for about 20 years. They do a ton of marketing.

Jason Kramer [00:12:38]:
They're spending six figures a year on marketing, but they do a lot. They do radio, they do tv, they have lawn signs, they have trucks driving around. And so we went old school. We took QR code technology, right? Simple QR code. And we built a separate QR code for each of their printed materials and digital. So the commercial for example, for tv, a special QR code shows up in that commercial versus the direct mail campaign. And each one of those goes to a specific landing page. So we're actually able to track where did that lead came from just by them clicking that QR code.

Jason Kramer [00:13:16]:
And I think that drawing this back to the marketers, I think a lot of times, unbeknownst to the marketer or maybe the fault of the marketer, because there's so many people at play, they're driving traffic to a homepage or to a specific page, and all of their traffic goes to the same landing page. In some cases, it's very difficult to track the results of that, and it's because they don't have the resources for the web team to build separate pages or they're not sophisticated enough to do that. But that really makes a difference. And so that's where it starts. But then the other simple part of this kind of tying in the loop, it's not always about how many interactions did it take to close the deal. Yes, that's important, but it's ultimately, did we close the deal, yes or no? And how much revenue did we generate? A, and that's really what we tend to look for at a very simple KPI and key performance indicator is the leads, the quality leads. And did the revenue minus the profit margin outweigh the cost to generate those leads?

Brandi Starr [00:14:21]:
And so I do agree with you overall, that at the end of the day, that what we're putting in front of our sales team is quality, and that it's converting to one opportunities at a high percentage is, at the end of the day, the only thing that matters where I would challenge that and love to hear some of your thoughts is, you know, I hate the, the attribution from sort of the battle perspective of who gets air quotes credit. But one of the things I think about in making sure that you've got some form of tracking and attribution in place is we need to be able to create that predictive revenue. So we've got to know what channels are actually working so that, you know, or what methods are working so that we can do more of that and what's not, so that, you know, we stop spending money and resources there. And so I'd love to hear, because I know you, you know, you really focus a lot on, like, the measurement and actionable insights and being able to reflect a, when you're working with your clients, what sorts of things are you having them look at and reflect on leading up to those revenue numbers?

Jason Kramer [00:15:37]:
So the first thing we're doing is, can we get on the call? So another client we have does pool construction in ground pools and all sorts of different things. They do a lot of marketing on Facebook now, by the way, for your, I know you know this, but for your audience, my company doesn't do any inbound marketing at all. We're strictly focused on outbound. And as I say it, your marketing team gets somebody to front door to knock on your front door. It's my team's job to invite them in, sit them on the couch, get to know them, and build a relationship. That's our role. And so with that, they get a lot of leads from Facebook. And what we've discovered in the short maybe two months we've been working with them is that they haven't been able to get on the phone with a lot of those people or they're not getting email responses back.

Jason Kramer [00:16:26]:
So what does that tell me? I'm not the marketing agency, but it tells me they're not qualified leads. Right. So we're looking at how many of those are you actually connecting with? Forget about whether they can afford to work with you or they even, you even have the product they want. You're not even able to talk to them. Right. So that tells me right away something needs to be tweaked on the Facebook campaign, because otherwise you're going to keep getting the exact same thing happening. Right. The same.

Jason Kramer [00:16:50]:
Same events over and over. And that's, you know, one thing that I think a lot of companies also don't have a very clear, defined process. How do you qualify? You mentioned before giving the sales team qualified leads. Well, how do you qualify a lead. Right. And so you could qualify leads sometimes by asking certain questions. Right. On a form.

Jason Kramer [00:17:11]:
So you can kind of, you know, do it that way. Sometimes it has to be in a conversation. Right to, or, you know, or in simple terms, if you're a company doing loans. Right. You could qualify somebody right through an application. Do they meet the terms of what you offer or not and how you can help them? So I think that's a piece. I think there's two pieces there. Like the contact made.

Jason Kramer [00:17:32]:
To answer your question, Brandi, are you making contact, and are you able to qualify? And what are you, what is your qualifying process? You know, to move them to the next sales process.

Brandi Starr [00:17:42]:
Okay. And that definitely makes sense because those are, you know, there's all sorts of different words for it, but people call them key moments of truth and different things along the journey. So it is really focusing. Can you get them from one of those moments to the next and seeing where the breakdown is happening.

Jason Kramer [00:18:03]:
Absolutely. And just so for terminology, so we call it an MQL. Right. So marketing is determining their marketing qualified lead, but then the sales team is an SQL once it gets to that stage. Now, some companies don't use that terminology, but that's really the ultimate, the line of the fence, you know, between going from marketing to sales.

Brandi Starr [00:18:22]:
Yeah, and that is a good point. No matter what you call it, there is, there is that handoff from one to the other at whatever phase. And that is important. One of the things that piqued my interest in your bio is you talk about you've got a background in identifying the revenue gaps in the marketing and sales funnels. And so I'd love to hear some of your thoughts around what are the biggest gaps there that you're seeing.

Jason Kramer [00:18:54]:
Well, I mean, I think the gap for the biggest thing, there's a few of them, but this is one of them. So the fact that there's no nurturing. Right. Being done for so many companies, you know, I think that's a huge missed opportunity. What we often see is that a lot of companies are spending a lot of money upfront and time to get the lead. And they're like, yeah, we got a lead, we got a lead. Let's go get that lead. Let's talk to that lead.

Jason Kramer [00:19:22]:
But if they can't get in touch with the lead, what the lead says, hey, sounds good. It sounds interesting. I'm just not ready yet, call me back in six months or call me back next year. So few companies have a system and a process in place to follow up. And sometimes what happens is that someone might mark their calendar. Okay, call Jason back in six months. But if there's no contact and they're like, oh, I'm not going to bother Jason. He said to call him back in six months.

Jason Kramer [00:19:48]:
That prospect is probably still shopping around, still doing research. And if somebody else gets in their ear and starts building a rapport with them, you might have lost that deal before you even had a chance to talk to Jason again in six months. And so what we often try to do is to nurture and educate through a systematic process. And what is that systematic process? It's a few things, Brandy. It's a series of emails that we would send out reminders to the sales team. It's not about asking, are you ready to buy? Are you ready to do a demo? Are you ready for a proposal? It's education. And so if we can go through and we can educate them, you know, by giving the salesperson a automated in part. Right.

Jason Kramer [00:20:38]:
To help them become more efficient. Right. So we're going to remind them to do things, but we're getting them to pick up the phone. We're getting them to send an email. Hey, Jason, I was just thinking about you. I saw this article I thought you might find interesting, and it's an article maybe in an industry publication, not even from the company you work for. And so what we see is if you do all this Brandi, 63% on average, is what the industry stats show will more likely convert if they've been nurtured through this type of campaign, this sequence of events, as if they hadn't. And what we also see, too is, which is pretty interesting, when you educate people and you nurture them, they tend to buy more from you because now they actually have seen, oh, well, Jason's company can do a lot more than I realize they can do.

Jason Kramer [00:21:25]:
Or I might trust Jason's company a little bit more now because they've been helping me all along. Right. With all this information, you know, and making me feel comfortable.

Brandi Starr [00:21:34]:
Yeah, and you are definitely preaching to the choir there. We talk a lot about deal velocity and deal size with nurture, it's like you are able to move them through that pipeline faster, and you're also able to increase deal size because, yeah, there is only so much that a salesperson can say on the phone or in a demo, whereas that nurture is feeding them more of that information that they need that sales may not cover in those one to one conversations. So, yeah, so I definitely, definitely love that. And I want to shift back just a little bit because we started talking about technology and I didn't ask about CRM because I do know that you have some thoughts around ways that companies should be tapping into the features functionality within their CRM to really help more with this process and with that marketing and sales alignment.

Jason Kramer [00:22:35]:
Yeah, well, you know, one question I sometimes get asked, and maybe you're going to ask it coming up, but I'll jump into it, people say to Jason, is there a CRM that's going to 100% solve all of my issues? And the answer is no. And you and I both know that. But some people don't know that, and they think that there's like some magical unicorn CRM out there that's better than what they have. And it's not so much always about the technology because the reality is that there's thousands of different pieces of technology out there. That you can use for your business. CRM might be a component and maybe all you need is a CRM and maybe something for accounting, and then you're set. Right. But what we look for is more about identifying a few things.

Jason Kramer [00:23:19]:
One, the problems that the company is having, the inefficiencies, who in the company is actually going to be using the technology, if it's a CRM? And what does the growth plans look like for the next two to three years? Because what we sometimes see is that companies will say, you know what? Oh, I don't know. That's a good system. It sounds good, but it's expensive and it's more than we need. So what do they do? They go into something simple that's got the bare bones of what they might need today, and then a year later, they are outgrowing that piece of software, and now they got to rebuild everything from scratch and start over and wind up spending more money because they were kind of not looking ahead into what they're going to need in the future. And so the big belief, I should say I have, brandy, is that software does not solve most problems. It helps, but you really need a team that understands what the problem is to help you identify and extract all the little components of it. And then what software is going to help drive towards the success of reaching those goals to figure out those problems. And the issue, I think that I keep on saying issue because there are issues.

Jason Kramer [00:24:35]:
So much software today is all glossy and shiny, and you see all these videos, you're like, wow, it's amazing. I can't believe it could do that. But it can't do that out of the box, right? Most systems that are sophisticated, you know, even we talk about drip campaigns or funnel systems that are out there, you have to write the content, you have to design the emails, you have to build the automations. And what we see is a lot of companies struggle where they think that just turning on the key, they're going to be able to go and everything's going to be all beautiful and, you know, and rainbows, and it doesn't work that way. And so the outcome we find is that. And this actually Harvard Business review did a study which I absolutely love. It was years ago, but I get always stuck in my head that almost 70% of businesses that try to implement a CRM on their own will completely fail, which I thought was an astonishing number when I read that back then. And the reason is they just don't know anything about the software.

Jason Kramer [00:25:35]:
And they also don't know how to apply the software to their business needs and their business problem. So they kind of fiddle with it. They kind of pass it off to a junior assistant, hey, go do this. I'm too busy. You figure it out. And there's really no strategic vision on how that software is going to be used. And so, as you can tell, I'm really passionate about CRM because it's such a game changer. If it's used right, if it's used incorrectly, it's a really costly mistake.

Jason Kramer [00:26:02]:
And it creates a lot of sometimes, I don't know, bad blood, if you will, in an organization, right. Because sometimes the CRMs are brought in by someone senior level who's like, oh, you know, my buddy over at this company's got this software I want to get it to because he says it's the best. Well, maybe it's good for him, but it's not good for you. Right. That should be the reason why you get it, you know, and I think that sometimes emotions get involved in these decisions, you know, pushes you in the wrong direction.

Brandi Starr [00:26:37]:
Yeah, I definitely agree with you there. And I've seen that happen so many times. And so my last question is, you know, based on time of the year, most of us are going through budget planning for fiscal 25. And, you know, the technology budget is always something that is scrutinized year after year because that is always a large number in most companies. And so as people are thinking about how they, you know, are able to reduce friction, enhance performance, drive more revenue. Any thoughts on what people should be thinking about related to their technology going into, you know, budget planning this year?

Jason Kramer [00:27:20]:
Well, yeah, I mean, so the first thing is, you know, you said before, you know, looking at what you have now, what, where can you clean house? What can you get rid of that you don't need or that you have two of? Sometimes I'll talk to a company and they have, you know, they'll have, like, HubSpot and, like, zoho. And I'm like, well, why do you have two CRMs? Like, it doesn't make sense. Like, you know, like, you know, and they don't realize that they both do the same thing or could do the same thing. So it's, you know, not one is bad or one is better. It's just, why do you have both? So I think looking at what you already have and taking inventory of that, you know, will help determine what you might be able to free up in terms of money for the budget for the next year. And then I think the second thing is outlining, you know, where do you see the, what are the goals for the business? What are, you know, there's marketing goals, there's business goals, there's all different aspects. Maybe you're moving, right. And there's, there's other things that expenses that are going on, but where's the business going to be a year from now or six months from now? And I think if you have a good framework for that and you have an understanding, then you could figure out what you need in terms of technology.

Jason Kramer [00:28:26]:
And I'll give just a simple example. At cultivise, we started a brand new social, which your listeners, I'll give it out a little later, but a brand new social media strategy at the end of last year. And so as a result of that, we needed new technology to manage all of that social content and the reporting that we didn't have in place before because we didn't need it. Right. So that technology was a necessity because of the marketing strategy. It's not that we had said how we need this technology first. What are we going to do with it? So it came as a result of some other planning for the business.

Brandi Starr [00:29:05]:
Yeah, I agree there. And I think the other piece or other two pieces, I'd say, is once you have tech, there is places where your technology can actually help to drive your strategy. Because I've seen situations where it's like, oh, the tech has this functionality. Here's how we could leverage that to further enhance our strategy. And then I think the third consideration that I thought about when you were talking, as people are going through planning, is also thinking about integrations, because you talked about the data and how the data connects at the beginning and what systems are integrated, how the data is flowing. That is another piece that is important in achieving what you were talking about earlier, in being able to have that clean data, that source of truth. But if things aren't feeding to the source of truth and being normalized, then there's still gaps in your source of truth.

Jason Kramer [00:30:05]:
Absolutely, Brandon, I'm glad you brought that up. That's a big thing, which I actually didn't mention, and I'm glad you did, is that if you are looking at any new technology, looking to see what type of integrations are available, and so one quick way to do that is to go to a website called Zapier, which I know, you know, but I'm sure, although maybe listeners have heard of on Zapier, you can do a search for software. They have thousands of pieces of software in that ecosystem. It's a very simple, inexpensive tool to connect one piece of software to another. So if you're looking for software, not saying that promoting Zapier, I have no ties to it, I benefit nonetheless from it. But it's a very simple tool to use to connect. And so that's a starting ground, at least to say, okay, well, if it's part of Zapier, then I have a pretty good feeling that I'm going to be able to use this tool and connect it to other things that I might have.

Brandi Starr [00:30:59]:
Yeah, that is a good point, because there is a lot of technologies that have native integrations, but Zapier is one that where those native integrations don't exist. Sometimes it's a quick plug and play depending on what you're trying to do. Well, awesome. And Jason, talking about our challenges is just the first step and nothing changes if nothing changes. And so in traditional therapy, the therapist gives the client some homework. But here at revenue rehab, we like to flip that on its head and ask you to give us some homework. So for those listening, if what you said has resonated with them, what would be your one thing? Where should they start as a first step in moving in the right direction to solve this challenge?

Jason Kramer [00:31:43]:
So one thing is, it's really difficult to answer for Andy, but I will do my best. I would say that the one thing is to take inventory of what you're doing now, to track, organize, and to nurture and follow up with your leads. That would be the one thing that I would say. And write that down, all the little pieces of the process. Who does what on the team, who's responsible for what, what software is being used at each individual level and kind of build like, you know, there'll be fancy flow chart, but build a little like, map of how all that is connected. And I think you're going to start finding some areas for improvement if you do that exercise.

Brandi Starr [00:32:26]:
Awesome. Well, I love that, like, taking stock of what you have and how it all fits together and how it's being used is so important. Well, Jason, I have enjoyed our discussion, but that's our time for today. But before we go, tell our audience how they can connect with you and definitely do the shameless plug for cultivise.

Jason Kramer [00:32:47]:
Thanks, Brandy. Well, you could go to cultivise website, but the easiest thing to do is go to afterthelead.com. that's afterthelead.com dot on there. You'll have my LinkedIn bio, you'll have ability to connect with me on LinkedIn the ability to schedule a call with me. As you can tell, I love to talk about these things. I'm all about consultative kind of conversations. So happy to talk with any of your listeners. Just, you know, if you have questions, reach out to me.

Jason Kramer [00:33:15]:
And there's also a playbook on that page, brandy, for your listeners, too, about how to nurture your leads. So it's a playbook I've written that they can download absolutely free, which is a free gift, you know, for the audience and for inviting me as a guest today.

Brandi Starr [00:33:29]:
Awesome. Well, we will make sure to link to those to after the lead and cultivize from the show notes. So wherever you are listening or watching this podcast, check the show notes so that you can connect with Jason. Well, Jason, I have enjoyed our discussion. Thanks so, so, so much for joining me here on the couch today.

Jason Kramer [00:33:50]:
Thank you, Brandy. It was great to be here.

Brandi Starr [00:33:52]:
Awesome. And thanks, everyone, for joining me. I hope you have enjoyed my conversation with Jason. I can't believe we're at the end. Until next time. Bye bye.