The Consumer Connection: Unlocking Insights for Authentic Marketing

Brandi Starr [00:00:33]:
Hello, hello, hello and welcome to another episode of Revenue Rehab. I am your host, Brandy Star and we have another amazing episode for you today. I am joined by Sunny Dublick. Sunny is an award winning marketing specialist and founder of Sunny Dublick Marketing. Originally from New Jersey, Sunny has spent over 15 years in the marketing and advertising industry working with high profile clients such as the Philadelphia 76ers and Hanes brands as well as small and medium sized businesses spanning the hospitality, retail and professional services industries. A self proclaimed marketing revolutionary and pink starburst of marketing experts, her strategies are designed to inspire creativity and divergence in the way you approach your marketing, marrying the art and science of the industry to enable you to truly grow the best, most authentic version of your brand. Sunny is also an avid painter, taco fanatic, beach bum and book nerd. Sunny, welcome to Revenue Rehab.

Brandi Starr [00:01:45]:
Your session begins now.

Sunny Dublick [00:01:48]:
Oh, I'm so excited to be here.

Brandi Starr [00:01:51]:
I think you've got a really impressive background, but the thing that made me most excited to talk to you is that you are also a taco fanatic. I have in my bio hashtag tacos are life. So total off script question, what's your favorite insides for your taco? How do you like them?

Sunny Dublick [00:02:11]:
Okay, so every Friday my boyfriend and I make double decker tacos here at the house. So like the old school Taco Bell recipe. So we take like the hard shell with the refried beans on the outside and then the ground beef. I like sour cream. Definitely got to have avocado, lettuce, tomato, hot sauce and then cheese.

Brandi Starr [00:02:32]:
Okay. So very traditional. I do like the hard and soft shell tacos together, but I haven't put anything in between them. I always just stick a hard shell. We do the Dorito flavored ones that are like the hard shell inside the soft shell. And my favorite to make is I make a Jamaican jerk taco with fire roasted pineapples on top and it is amazing. I don't cook much, but that is one of those things that, you know, I, I totally nail.

Sunny Dublick [00:03:07]:
I love it.

Brandi Starr [00:03:08]:
But I'm gonna get back on topic because otherwise I could totally talk about tacos all day long. But I will go with our traditional icebreaker which is a little woosa moments that I like to call Buzzword banishment. So, so tell me, what buzzword would you like to get rid of forever?

Sunny Dublick [00:03:30]:
So it's a phrase and I hope that that's okay. But yep, work smarter, not harder. I feel like it's one of those things where it just immediately feels like an insult because it's like, what makes you think that I want to work harder? And like, when people say that, they're basically saying that you lack, in my opinion, at least it feels like they're saying that you lack efficiency or you, you know, time management or any of those things. Anytime I hear anyone say that to me or anyone else, I'm like, okay, say what you really mean. Of like, have you tried this? Have you thought of this? I feel like it's one of those smoke and mirror type phrases that means nothing unless you have something to back it up that's going to make me more efficient.

Brandi Starr [00:04:11]:
Okay, that one's gonna be a tough one for me because shamefully, that is a phrase that I use and I do usually use it when I am seeing inefficiencies and people working way too hard. So although I don't mean it as an insult, it's, you know, it's definitely not a compliment. It does mean I'm seeing something that could be a bit better. But for, at least for this conversation, we will put that in the box and we will not talk about working smarter or harder in this conversation. So now that we've gotten that off our chest, tell me what brings you to revenue rehab today.

Sunny Dublick [00:04:57]:
I'm really excited to talk more about what I think is one of the most crucial and underutilized and under talked about topics in marketing, which is the consumer behavior and consumer research portion of marketing. And I think there's a stigma that comes along as soon as you say anything about consumer research, which is that it has to be expensive or super complicated or time, like, you know, it's gonna take months and months and it doesn't have to be. I think that you, you kind of see these major companies, these major brands like the Coca Cola's, the Apples of the world, and you think that those are the kind of brands and companies it's reserved for and it's not true at all. And I think we as marketers are further away from our customers than we've ever been because of all of the automation, because of all of the technology that we have access to.

Brandi Starr [00:05:46]:
Ah, that very interesting perspective. And I've got lots of questions for you. But before I dive in, I believe in setting intention. It Gives us focus, it gives us purpose, and most important, it gives our audience an understanding of what they should take away from the discussion today. And so what's your best hope for our talk? What would you like people to take away?

Sunny Dublick [00:06:11]:
I think I would be elated if I was able to inspire creativity and anyone listening to this, I consider myself a very creative person by nature, personal life and business world. And I think that that's the one thing in marketing that, like, I feel like is slowly dying. I think a lot of times we as marketers assume that designers are the people that, you know, need to be creative or copywriters. But we as marketers, like, we have these formulas that we follow. And I think for me, I would just do jumping jacks if I was able to inspire people to think more different about how it is that they perceive their current marketing efforts and to get more creative.

Brandi Starr [00:06:51]:
Okay, so I want to jump back to what you said in terms of research, because I definitely agree that there is a perception around research and how expensive and time consuming it has to be. And so I'd love to hear your perspective on how it's not. What's the other side of that?

Sunny Dublick [00:07:14]:
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that's interesting is that we have access as marketers to more data than ever, and it tells us the what, but it doesn't tell us the why. So you can see, let's say, your most popular product and it's flying off the shelves, but you don't necessarily know or have the understanding behind that. You speculation. And I think when I look at what marketing research is and what it's not, for me, the research component of things is going to be going out and finding proprietary data about your consumers. Whether that's surveys, whether that's interviews, whether that's secret shopping. Right. Getting closer to them, their perceptions and how it is they feel about your brand, the industry that you're in, and what's going on in their lives. I personally feel like so much of marketing is.

Sunny Dublick [00:08:07]:
So I'm gonna use like a funny, random word, but, like narcissistic of it's all about us. And if you know anything about marketing, it's. It's not about you. It's about the customer. It's about their journey. They're the hero. We're just the kind of supporting character, energy and getting them what they want. And I feel like we neglect to understand and apply that and kind of just push out messaging as much as possible, hoping to capture them versus understanding what's going on in their world, why they want this, why they need this, and what features and benefits are truly important to them.

Brandi Starr [00:08:43]:
Okay. And I definitely agree there. And where I'd like to hear your perspective more is on where the disconnect happened. Because almost every CMO that I talk to, you know, when we talk about what's important, things they need to do things that are important for a CMO to be focused on understanding the buyer, making sure that they are spending time, whether it's listening to sales calls, talking directly to consumers. This, this comes up in almost every conversation. However, in talking to you and other experts, I also hear statements like what you said in that we are further from understanding our buyer than we've ever been. And those two are conflicting things. And so really like to hear, you know, what are you seeing? And hearing that, you know, tells you that we, you know, that people understand they need to be doing these things, but that it's not actually happening.

Sunny Dublick [00:09:49]:
I mean, I think we opened the floodgates when it came to digital advertising. It was one of those things that all of a sudden it was accessible to anybody. I mean, even now, like, literally anybody can go on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Google and start spamming out ads to people. And it opened the floodgates of what was initially very effective. But I mean, I think they say the average person is receiving around like 10,000 marketing messages every single day, and only 25% are relevant to them whatsoever. And you add on that the fact that as humans, we have so much going on in our lives, right? I think they say the average human makes around 35,000 decisions every day. So that's what time you're getting out of bed, what you choose to wear, how much sugar you put in your coffee. Am I going to the gym now? Am I going to the gym then? What am I doing for lunch? Do I have dinner prepared? I have to go pick up the kids.

Sunny Dublick [00:10:46]:
All of those things are constantly ramping up in our brains. And then you have marketing coming in here and just throwing 10,000 extra messages on top of that. And it's a wonder why there's just a complete disconnect. Because I think we've attributed the ability of we can be pushing out all of this messaging to we should. And that's effective for the consumer. I think that there was a time when things, especially digital marketing wise with ads, emails, social media, it was highly effective. And everyone I know is going through the same thing where it's no longer yielding the same positive results. People are burnt out and especially beginning of the year, you hear a ton of people.

Sunny Dublick [00:11:25]:
I'm on social media hiatus. I'm unsubscribing from a bunch of emails. Right. If you look and you talk to anyone, do you think that they want more messaging? Do you think they want more marketing from people? No, they want to know what's right for them because people have taken the time to understand them and what's important for them. They don't want to be spammed with all of this information. And I think people have attributed. I have a message I need to get it out there with. That's what good marketing is.

Sunny Dublick [00:11:56]:
And it's not. It's thinking about you, not them.

Brandi Starr [00:12:00]:
I definitely agree that as marketers, we have to. We have to always start from the consumer's perspective. We have to try to get very prescriptive around who we're talking to and why they should care about what we have to say. And really, what I'd like to understand from your perspective is the research that you talked about. How do we effectively tie those two things together? Because it seems like people agree that doing that research and understanding the buyer is the key to doing exactly what you're talking about. But then there seems to be a disconnect in it actually happening.

Sunny Dublick [00:12:46]:
Yeah.

Brandi Starr [00:12:47]:
And so I'm really curious there around, how do we. How do we marry the two? Like, how do we marry the understanding? Because I feel like, again, most CMOs VPs that I talk to, they get exactly what you're saying. Like, I don't. I've never heard anyone disagree and be like, no, understanding the consumer is not important. Like, I've never heard that as a statement. But I also don't. And I do agree with you in that most people aren't doing it well and that there is still a large element of that spray and pray, especially in digital marketing. And so how do we close that gap?

Sunny Dublick [00:13:26]:
Yeah, I think that one of the key things, like, talk a little bit more about what you've been alluding to is like, why is this gap so big? And I think it's because what the CMO has been tasked with more often than not is just conversion of where are the numbers? Why is marketing not performing? Where's my return on ad spend? Where's this? And when you're put in the place of pressure here, the last thing that you're thinking is, well, instead of focusing on all of this really pressing stuff that my job is directly linked to in terms of metrics and performance, I'm just Going to start talking to some customers. I get it, right? And especially in larger organizations, it feels a heck of a lot more scary because you have so much tasked and tapped on your plate that the last thing you're thinking is the super basics of let me take it back to point, like ground zero, right? Of let me just start talking to clients and customers. And I think one of the things that also comes up that's a detriment to this is people find it uncomfortable, right? And I get this all the time when I am talking to clients and asking them more about talking to their customers and they feel uncomfortable asking them questions. And I like to say this and I think it to be universally true. People love to talk about themselves. There's a way that you can do it that doesn't feel creepy or intrusive. And I think having someone that has a baseline knowledge of marketing research, you don't go to someone and say, how great is our product? Tell me why you love it, right? Like that is what we call bias. But you talk to them about how they use your product, where they buy your product, why they chose yours over others, what others have they tried, what did they like about those? What didn't they? You know, I know it sounds silly, but even, you know, toothpaste is widely known to be one of the least brand loyal categories.

Sunny Dublick [00:15:20]:
And companies spend millions and millions and millions every year just pumping out commercials to try to give you that brand recognition. And it works to an extent. But I never buy the same toothpaste twice. I'm just looking at whatever end cap is there and I'm just like, this will do. And I feel like that's one of the things where it's. I'm using this as an example. What are the things that are going through your mind when you're going in to grab toothpaste, right? Are you looking for the cheapest option? Are you looking for the brand you know, is it I'm going into the quickest, you know what I mean? Like whatever one is like right in front of me. Oftentimes the more that you get in front of your customers and talk to them about what their daily lives were like, when are you buying this? Is it on your way home from soccer practice and you have a kid in the car that you have to go get dinner for so you don't have time to make a, you know, I mean like weigh the options.

Sunny Dublick [00:16:09]:
It helps you be a better marketer because you understand the psychology behind it. And I think so much of what I've seen I started out in the industry in 2008 and it's been so much more focused on. We have a target audience that we've defined because we think these are the people that want to buy our product. And it's really interesting because even as much as you think you know your customer, your customers evolve and change constantly. And look at the examples of brands that are going in and out of fashion. Like Victoria's Secret is such a great example. Right. Like their customer base is literally almost on a 180 of who it used to be.

Sunny Dublick [00:16:48]:
And I just think it's really fascinating that we sometimes carry around the ego of we know exactly who our customers are and we have our Google Analytics data that backs it up that it's mostly 18 to 34 or whatever it is. Maybe they're buying it for their 60 year old grandmothers. Like, I think so much of it is just the laziness that comes along with some of the data we have access to that makes us think that we're so much smarter than we are. And I think one of the things that I feel most passionately about is that at the end of the day, we're marketing to humans. And I think that gets lost sometimes in the world of AI and we're going into the Metaverse and Web 3.0 and all of these amazing technological advances in marketing are fantastic. And I think we can't lose sight of the fact that we're talking to people and people are very complex beings. And that's I think, the missing piece of the ingredient that's harder to define and not exactly attributable to direct revenue metrics.

Brandi Starr [00:17:48]:
Yeah. And that is such a great point in that our buyers do evolve and you know, the. Even with the same product and you know, I know a lot of Our audience is B2B but Victoria's Secret is a very well known consumer brand and that is a great perspective. Like, I can remember being, you know, in my early 20s and getting a Victoria's Secret bra was like, you know, it was like a extra. It was like a, you know, a benefit. Like you felt all, you know, like you felt extra special. You know, it was like almost one of those. I wanted to walk around in my bra so that people knew I had a Victoria's Secret bra.

Brandi Starr [00:18:30]:
Like it was a big deal. And then I can remember my daughters being in high school and half their wardrobe was the Victoria's Secret pink line. And it was like just, you know, like it was almost like an Old Navy. Like that was what they wore. And, you know, and then you do see, you. You see those ebbs and flows of audiences that pop up that were not necessarily on the radar. And to your point, smart brands figure out how to really lean into that. And, you know, thinking about Victoria's Secret, again, they created in a lot of malls, a separate store for the pink line.

Brandi Starr [00:19:13]:
So all of those young, hip, you know, teens and early 20s that want to wear the clothes, they are going into a completely different store with a completely different vibe than those older, more sophisticated customers who want a really good quality bra are going into a completely different vibe. And I do think that that is something that B2B organizations really can learn in that, you know, I think all companies will have those outliers of this audience that is, you know, one of these things is not like the other. And it's like, how do we really lean into that? And to your point, understanding them is kind of that first step of like, what do we need to do different? Like the example of do we need to have a completely separate storefront versus, you know, pushing them all to the same. And, you know, that is also true in services. It's true in B2B. Like, you know, it shows up differently depending on your industry. But I agree that that is one of those things that as marketers, we've really got to be considering.

Sunny Dublick [00:20:27]:
Yeah. And I mean, so I mean, I myself am in a B2B industry and many of my clients are as well. And I will say exactly echoing what you're talking about, like, the same principle applies that if you're not evolving with the needs of your customers, like, you don't have a business anymore, you have a hobby. Right. Because people no longer want to buy from you. And I think, you know, when I started out, I was very succinct in who my target profile was and the kinds of businesses I wanted to work with and all of that. And, you know, I stand here today and who I set out to work with is like 100% the opposite of who I am working with now, but in the best way possible. And I say that to say I think oftentimes one of the things I hear over and over again from clients is this is for this person.

Sunny Dublick [00:21:18]:
I made it for this person. That doesn't always guarantee that it is the people or people that are going to be buying from you. Right. I actually had a very interesting conversation with a client where they originally wanted to hire me to do social media work. And I was like, let's not really what I do. But what's going on? It's a revenue problem. Most often when people are looking for marketing help, it's a revenue issue. Right.

Sunny Dublick [00:21:40]:
And the more that we got into it, he was looking at targeting an audience. And all of the customers that I talked to were like in their 60s. And he wanted to target millennials. And I'm like, literally the reason that people love you is because you are part of their health, healthy lifestyle. And you have this feature that helps with, like, bad hips. Like, that's not what millennial audiences. And it was one of those, like, oh, yeah, like we really haven't been talking to that audience. And once they started, it was just, I mean, I think they doubled sales year over year for the same quarter.

Sunny Dublick [00:22:14]:
So I think the funny thing is it's a long game. It's not when you talk about consumer behavior and making it part of your marketing strategy, it is not an immediate benefit of, I did this tactic, it yielded X in dollars. And so much of marketing is tied so stringently, especially now, you know, inflation. All sorts of things are happening. I feel like everyone that I'm talking to from a marketing perspective is being tapped more than ever with results. But I feel like part of it has to have room for creativity and long term success. So planting the seeds of getting closer to people can actually be quite cheap and, or free if you have the ability to do it within your own marketing department. Because again, your customers want to talk to you, especially, you know, and you have the data to see who's bought from you over and over throughout the years.

Sunny Dublick [00:23:06]:
And I feel like having you or hiring an outside source to be able to really get underneath of that, like, surface layer of they like us. But why, why do they keep buying from us? What is it that we do better than anybody else? Um, what are the current. Like, one of my favorite questions when I do in depth interviews is what keeps you up at night in your role? And it's one of those things where it completely uncovers a just an open conversation, which I appreciate, but you get a sense of what their lives are like. It takes you outside of the box of this is what I have to offer you. Because I firmly believe that the best marketing isn't selling. The best marketing is just connecting with people on the problems that they have and how you understand it and you have a solution if they want to buy it. But I think great marketing is about connection and not about pushing things on people.

Brandi Starr [00:23:58]:
Yeah, I agree. And I think there's a couple things that you hit on There one that the majority of it is a long term play. And I think that that's been the drawback of technology is that now that we can measure almost everything, there is this expectation that everything can be measured. And so it has devalued some of the things that don't have that clear line to revenue that are truly so important. But I think one thing that nuance in what you said is that although it is a long term play, that example that you gave of looking at the consumer behaviors and identifying that it was that over 60 crowd and you know, with hip issues that was getting people to buy. That to me is the kind of justification for this consumer research because when you find out why your current buyers are buying, you can lean into that faster in order to get more of them to buy or to get those same ones to buy more. I think the opportunity there, that is more of the long term play is where you may identify some of those sub and totally different audiences. So they may identify that there is some other reason that millennials might buy and that may be a longer term play to really lean into that audience and add, you know, kind of that yin and yang opposites of target audiences.

Brandi Starr [00:25:37]:
But that you've got to actually get the traction there. And so I think that becomes that balance of what you get out of the research and could also be a key way that, you know, CMOs, VPs, that they get sort of the space to lean into this sort of research more to get the outcomes that you're talking about.

Sunny Dublick [00:26:03]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's one of those, I think it's, it's funny because it's just not sexy. Like it's so sexy to be like, we have a new campaign, we have a new website, we have a new logo. We've done all of this right? And you can see it and it's tangible and it's visible and it's, and here's the cost, here's the, you know, timeline, all of that. And I think it's one of the things that's at a detriment to most people because it is the hard, weird workaround. But one of the things that I reinforce because when I work with clients, no one ever comes to me and says, sunny, I want more marketing research. I walk them through my process and I tell them, I'm not going to let you fly blind. Like, I want you to make informed decisions based on what I know instead of just saying, I think you should do this.

Sunny Dublick [00:26:51]:
Because the thing with marketers and you know, God bless it. It's amazing. You ask five different marketers for an opinion, you'll get five different opinions. Because there's not one way to do anything in marketing that's necessarily going to always be right. Everyone's going to have a different way. But I feel like for me, the way to get more of that, like Target, to stop throwing things at a wall and to start being a lot more succinct is by starting from a place where you understand the heck out of the industry that you're in, what the trends are going on, what your competitive kind of environment is looking like, what products or services others around you are coming out with. Not to copy, but just to understand, where you understand better than anybody. And you are literally a translator of your customers, problems and needs.

Sunny Dublick [00:27:40]:
And then when you understand your brand and who it is in itself and it's super authentic, and when those three things align, you have true marketing magic. And there's a man I look up to very much in marketing. His name is Scott Martin. I listened to a TED talk on him recently and he said this and it like, oh, got me right in the heart. He said marketing and advertising are the tax for being unremarkable. Because. And it's true because the more that you have to push things out, it means that people aren't naturally coming to you time over time. And I love that he said that because in a perfect world, it shouldn't have to be this like pushing a boulder up a hill.

Sunny Dublick [00:28:21]:
You should be able to attract the right clients. And you do that when you have an amazing offer and you have people that tell other people about it. And so I think that is where I want to just get some of the complexity that we've built up in marketing and just toss it out the window and just say if you know your customers and you have something great, you have the ability to have an absolutely amazing business. When you keep in touch with that, when you're kind of working with the humanity and the aspects of, of the people that buy from you and you stop relying so solely just on the technology and information.

Brandi Starr [00:29:00]:
I agree there. And you know, it's one of those things you talk about research being unsexy, but in my opinion, it is always the unsexy components that are the things that make the biggest difference. You know, all the, all the sexy stuff is kind of bells and whistles, and not that they're not important, but it's like if you don't have those, you know, those fundamentals in place, all of that Fun stuff starts to fall flat.

Sunny Dublick [00:29:31]:
Yeah.

Brandi Starr [00:29:33]:
And so talking about our challenges is just the first step. And nothing changes if nothing changes. And so in traditional therapy, the therapist gives the client some homework, but here at revenue rehab, we like to flip that on its head and ask you to give us some homework. And so I'd love to hear your one thing for those, you know that what you have said has resonated. Where do they start? What's the next action that they should take?

Sunny Dublick [00:30:01]:
I mean, there's a million things that I could say, but I think one of the biggest ones, if I could ask y'all to do anything, is just to talk to one of your customers and just ask them about their lives. Like, stop making it about your business. If let's say that you have an accounting company. I'm just giving an example. Ask them about what it looks like to have the stress of their bookkeeping. Ask them about, you know, what their favorite systems are, what their process is, why they've chosen you over the years, who else they've looked towards. I feel like I just want you to have an open, candid conversation about what their lives are like and then how your product or service fits into that. And I think that's the most important thing, is just to get used to talking to people and asking them about their lives.

Brandi Starr [00:30:49]:
I think that is an important one. And to your point, even if you start with one customer, because you know, having that conversation with one customer is going to, you know, it's not going to give you all of the insight, but it will at least give you insight that you don't have today. And the times that I have done that, it has always given me some aha moments of something that I had not thought about or a way that they think about something or the way that they phrase something that can be really valuable in being able to attract others like them. So I love that as a next action item. Well, Sunny, I have enjoyed our discussion, but that's our time for today. But before we go, definitely do the shameless plug for Sunny dublick Marketing and tell our audience how they can connect with with you.

Sunny Dublick [00:31:45]:
Sure. I am all over LinkedIn. That is my social of choice. I'm also@snunnydublic.com and if you are ever interested in having a free complimentary consultation, the contact form is there and I would love to talk to you.

Brandi Starr [00:31:59]:
Awesome. Well, we will make sure to link to your LinkedIn as well as your website. Well, thanks so much for joining me. I definitely have enjoyed this discussion.

Sunny Dublick [00:32:11]:
Thank you.

Brandi Starr [00:32:12]:
So much and thanks everyone, for joining us. I hope you have enjoyed my discussion with Sunny. I can't believe we're at the end. Until next time. Bye. Bye.