The Selfless CMO: Embracing Servant Leadership

Outro VO  00:06

Welcome to revenue rehab, your one stop destination for collective solutions to the biggest challenges faced by marketing leaders today. Now head on over to the couch, make yourself comfortable and get ready to change the way you approach revenue. Leading your recovery is modern marketer, author, speaker and Chief Operating Officer at Tegrita Brandi Starr

Brandi Starr  00:35

Hello, hello hello and welcome to another episode of revenue rehab. I am your host Brandi Starr and we have another amazing episode for you today, I am joined by Kurt Uhlir. Kurt is a sought after marketing leader that's been called the King of scaling. He has built and run growth for early stage companies, as well as those over 500 million in annual revenue and assemble teams across six continents. In the past few years. He's been an executive with a public company and coaches dozens of mid market companies, in addition to giving numerous keynotes and podcast guest appearances, about growing companies of all sizes, with high achieving servant leadership and modern marketing. Welcome to revenue rehab, Kurt, your session begins now. Thank you for having me. I am excited to have you when I read your bio. I was like across six continents. What about Antarctica?

Kurt Uhlir  01:36

There's no freelancers or full time employees you can hire

Brandi Starr  01:40

so so yeah, so I'll give you a pass. So not covering all of the continents just based on that fact.

Kurt Uhlir  01:47

Maybe changing that we may have to like we may be able to do that going forward.

Brandi Starr  01:52

This is true the way we're having global warming, Antarctica might become beach at some points. But that's neither here nor there. Now, before we jump into our topic today, I like to break the ice with a little segments I call buzz word banishment. So tell me what buzzword would you like to get rid of forever?

Kurt Uhlir  02:16

I'm actually really sick of hearing artificial intelligence or AI right now, especially for people that have no idea what it actually means.

Brandi Starr  02:25

Yeah, it is. You know, it's like AI has been great in its own respects. But yeah, it is right now. Everybody has become an AI experts and everything. You know, I was looking at a conference. And it was not an AI conference. But it was like, every session is like AI, this AI that AI this? And it's like, okay, yes, it is so important. And we do need to understand it. But it you can like hit a wall of like, okay, can we talk about something else?

Kurt Uhlir  03:00

Yeah, I know, too. I know, CEOs that to public mid-market public companies, that in the last 12 months went to every everybody that reports to them, and the next level down, requiring that everybody come back within weeks of the two to three AI initiatives that they're that they're not only looking at, but are implementing in every one of those departments, like not that it doesn't have a place in accounting, but when when things are working, maybe what are we considering versus like, what are you implementing right now? So they shifted the entire strategy just to say, tell me what AI you're doing? And I'm like, well, that's that's one way to do it. It's not the way but it's about it's a valid approach.

Brandi Starr  03:41

I'm like, it is a way, you know, not necessarily the right way. But you know, it's a way. So I can promise today we're not going to talk about AI and artificial intelligence, no robots, no chat. GPT excetera. So now that we've gotten that off our chest tell me what brings you to revenue rehab today.

Kurt Uhlir  04:02

So I'm doing a lot of coaching right now. But it's really coming back down to I think we're going to talk about it but a servant leadership versus other styles. And so how many people are held back especially like AI and other things, things are changing. There's uncertainty right now in economies and how people are approaching things tend to hold back their revenues and what they're trying to actually do. But also the they're slowing the companies and actually some cases increasing more certainty uncertainty than they would like.

Brandi Starr  04:32

Okay, yeah. And I, you know, leadership and how it impacts revenue is something that I don't think is talked about enough. And so I love that we are going to jump into that. And before we do, I believe in setting intentions. It gives us focus, it gives us purpose, and most importantly, it gives our audience an understanding of what they should expect from our conversation today. So tell me what's your best intention? What would you like to people to take away from our discussion. It

Kurt Uhlir  05:02

For Me, I think that art is there's only two styles of leadership. There are flavors underneath there. But it's, there's an authoritative leadership style, which at the end of the day says, Hey, do what I say exactly how I say to do it, or there's the door, you're fired. And then there's a servant leadership approach, which is a very different approach that says, Hey, I've hired you for a business reason to help the company hit business outcomes. And my job then is not to tell you exactly what to do. It's to do that somewhat, but it's to to serve you to help you better accomplish the outcomes the company has hired you to do. And when you do that, it changes from being a micromanager, which people don't like to think they are, but almost everybody is and it shifts them talking about how do they coach train and trust their employees. Okay,

Brandi Starr  05:46

and so that is really helpful. And I want to begin our conversation, really, with the end in mind. Because, you know, as a, as an executive leading people is a significant portion of the role. But at the end of the day, we are really measured on company performance, and especially for those that our leading marketing, there is so much more pressure, and focus on how we are driving revenue. And I know that you see a connection between leadership style, and the ability to effectively drive revenue, drive meaningful customer engagements, etc. So I'd like to hear you to put those two together to kind of lay the foundation of why this is a topic that people really should pay attention to, and do kind of some self assessment here. So

Kurt Uhlir  06:44

my my approach to marketing is kind of almost, I mean, it's a flavor of the Steve Jobs approach. My belief is marketing encompasses everything from somebody who's never heard of your brand, or company until they've been a loyal customer for 10 plus years. That means does it does it? Does the umbrella cover what a salesperson says to client? Yes, does it does it matter? The press releases, of course, doesn't matter what onboarding and Customer Success teams look like when things come up for renewal? It encompasses all of that. And so so often from a marketing perspective, to your point that we're pushed for, like, what are my marketing qualified leads? What are sales qualified leads, and we people stay in that a little narrow area, as opposed to saying, hey, some cases, we maybe we're handing over enough leads, but sales isn't closing. And the fault isn't sales, it's that we're we're setting the wrong expectations up front when somebody initially hears about our company or our brand, or maybe we're doing all that well, but the product as it's being on boarded, and they're teaching things, it's not fulfilling on the training perspective, the way that the sales team and even the product team knows that it could be. And so from a marketers perspective, I have to step out a lot of times and say, like, the servant leadership approach says, Hey, I might be wrong about a lot of things, my head of revenue may be wrong about a lot of things, the product team when they're talking and the product manager talking, they might be wrong, wrong about things, even if it's worked really well in other companies. And so the servant leadership approach is entering almost every conversation with that concept of saying, I might be wrong about something you might be wrong about something, our goal is to hit these business outcomes. So let's, let's be open to, hey, we, we all know that we're wrong about things because we change our mind about things we were really right about 12 months ago. And so when we come in with a certain leadership approach, that idea opens us up to compressing the amount of time that it would normally take to become find out, you're wrong to saying, Hey, is that taking 12 months to figure out this is the wrong product marketing fit? Maybe we figure it out in three months? And so that's how I connect the two together. I'm always looking for how do I compress that time?

Brandi Starr  08:54

Yeah, and I can remember early in my career, reading a book about failing forward, and it talked a lot about you know, failure is inevitable, there's going to be things that don't work. And it's how do you fail fast and fail forward. And I do think as a leader, you know, thinking about my early career, how I was influenced and leaders that I had, and then the leader that I aim to be for my team now. It really is making that space to be wrong to try something and it not work to you know, really be able to figure that out fast and pivot. And I do agree with you like being able to be that kind of leader. If you grow people so much more because we all learn from those experiences of here's what we tried, here's what you know, did it work? Where I would sort of love to hear and I won't even say push back. It's more so challenge it just to hear your thoughts. This is where I have seen people who lead with more of that authoritative, you know, do as I say, I know best kind of style, the thought process that I have heard is more, it's my butt on the line, the tenure of the head of marketing is the shortest in the C suite. You know, we don't have, you know, we don't have time, we don't have space, we don't have the trust of the CEO, we don't have all of these other things. So I've got a lead with an iron fist, so to speak, and make sure that everyone is marching to the beat of the same drum. And so while I don't agree with those statements, it is something that I hear. So I would love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah, great

Kurt Uhlir  10:49

question. Great pushback, I hear that as well. And so one of the things I'm giving keynotes or a corporation brings me in to start talking through their leadership and Midmark managers is, that person, often, if you go and talk to them, they will think that they're actually making the lion's share of that, the decisions that they know what's going on. But if you slow them down from that hard charging, and you start talking to all the decisions are made, just even within marketing, that says, Are you reviewing every email within the drip sequence? Are you reviewing? Are you yourself as a CMO reviewing and you start walking through all of the decisions that their team is making, especially if they have a larger team, that their direct managers who that they're managing, and you start walking through all of the concepts that are being made? Well, like, yeah, we have brand guidelines, but you might have 20 people in your marketing team that are interpreting those, unless you're actually reviewing every one of those yourself. You're not making the decisions? And so the person that thinks, Well, yes, is there but on the line? Yes, but they think they're making 3040 70% of the decisions. When you walk them through all of the decisions that take place on a weekly or even monthly basis. They very quickly realize they're not even making 1% of the decisions. And so while they think there may micromanaging their think they're putting in place all these SOPs, one of two things is happening, either. There's no flexibility whatsoever. And that's the case like, that's how you kill sales and revenue is you say, everything has to sound like a robot, follow the SOP 100% of the clear, with no decision making to yourself, well, that's how things slow down. Or on the other side, your team is making these decisions, but they're scared to come to you, because you're going to be the bottleneck. And you're going to be like, well, I can go to Kurt for this. But it's gonna take three weeks to come back to me before he can give me a review of this. Well, that doesn't work from a timeline perspective, when somebody needs to get a campaign out today, as opposed to that servant leadership approach says, Look, I'm creating an environment where I've given very clear direction about what I want to happen. Well, do I want my team to push back on me if they feel that it could be wrong? Well, actually, yeah, because if I hired an if I hired just a robot, well, there's jerky TP for that, if I were but but if I'm hiring smart people, and I'm trying to train them, well, they might see something I don't even though I may need to still make the decision on it. I want them to come to me with that. Or I want them to say, hey, I need you to take a look at this. Like I had a Head of Customer Success. She was wonderful. And we created this environment where she had no problem coming to me and just said, I have this horrible customer that's going on right now. And can you just can you take 35 seconds and read the email I'm about to send them because she knew she wasn't gonna get her hand slapped if she got it wrong.

Brandi Starr  13:35

Right. And I think creating that space for your team to one be able to make decisions, you know, within like, everybody has their box of like, based on your role, your level, all these things like this is this is your lane. And when it comes to making decisions in that, Elaine, you've got it. And also again, feeling confident. Like I think one of the best feelings as a leader is when I have someone compliment something my team is doing that I didn't even know what's happening. And I'm like, Oh, look, yes, that is amazing. And it is because yeah, I'm like, you know, totally patting myself on the back because I'm like, they felt empowered enough to take something from idea to market without having to involve me because it was in their lane. They felt it was amazing. There wasn't something I was needed for. Because you're right. As a leader, we have so many things that are going on, coming to me for everything is gonna slow it down. Like it just is facts. So yeah, so thinking about this and especially speaking because I think I have my listeners our range from you know, CMOs who have been CMOS for decades, and some that are just moving into that leadership. Roll. And so I want to speak for a second to those people that are still a bit new in their role and having to start to lead a team. How do you? How do you as an individual really self assess or evaluate how you're working with your team to see if you really are leveraging a servant leadership approach? Yeah, great

Kurt Uhlir  15:26

question. Someone agree, I think, you know, like, especially if you're early on, like, you have to put things i bullets on your agenda, on your agendas with your one on ones and with your teams to make sure that you're just covering topics like asking that, what could I be wrong about new and your career? I mean, I have to do that now. And I've written 1000s and 1000s 10s of 1000s of, you know, articles on this at this point. And so it's like, I put that on the agenda for certain people. But I think that part of that is a self assessment, it is taking 15 to 20 minutes, once a once a week, and just looking back and saying, Hey, are my are my teams coming back coming at me with with questions that to your point that I didn't even know that they were working on some campaigns, or they come to me with gut feelings for things that they think might be wrong, or I might be wrong about that they can't fully articulate yet. So that would be kind of the key to me. Because I mean, there's the hard driving boss, where he kind of mentioned like, they're pushing hard, and they they're intending to be the authoritative boss. But so many people, I'd say, the vast majority of companies that and executives I work with, they don't think that they're an authoritative boss. And if you talk to their team, they're like, they're here. She is so nice. But if you underlie this nice personality, they're still the authoritative boss, they just don't realize it. They think because they're nice. And they ask how the weekend went, that they're not that they're, they're not an authoritative boss. That's not what servant leadership, servant leadership is coming in every day and saying, hey, I want to see see, I want you to be successful in your job. How can I make that better? In some cases, that's backing away from that person. And other cases is saying, Look, I'm having a problem with the copy that you're writing for social media and your two levels underneath me. And so the next time you get in and do that, I just want to pull up side of you virtually or in the real world, and do that with you. And you'll see how I'm approaching it and will critique that. And so you really do that self assessment to see are people coming to you with problems like that?

Brandi Starr  17:28

Yeah, and that's a really good point. I can remember a couple years ago, like, you know, our executive team goes through, you know, different sorts of exercises here and there just to always reassess how we're leading how we're keeping engaged teams. And one of the things that we started asking, like, one of the questions we've kind of, added into a rotation in our one on ones is actually asking our team, where do you need me to lean in more to support you? And where would you like more autonomy? And I have found that question to be extremely powerful. Because I can admit, early in my career, I was that nice, but authoritative leader. And it was more the control freak in me that, you know, wanted to make sure that things were done, right, not that I intended to be authoritative, but that was the way it came across. And I did have someone, you know, say to me, like, I need space to just do my job. And it took me by surprise, because I was like, What do you mean, like, of course, I give you space like, and so I had to really like step back and look at that. And I have found that because I'm so conscious of being more of that servant, and being more helpful. I do Lean back sometimes a bit too far. And so in asking that question, I have actually had my team to say like, here's the place, I'm not super confident, I really would love you to, you know, if you would lean in harder, and, you know, almost like, micromanage me in this little way so that I can grow. So that then you can, you know, be able to step back, and I'll be confident. And that's been a true eye opener for me, because there are places where I'm like, had I not ask that question. I may have been giving them too much space. Yeah,

Kurt Uhlir  19:30

I love that question. For me, one of the things that comes up to the questions and also what's going on is, I know, like, my nature is to want to control everything. I'm good at so many things. And so if I can do the work, like is it better than perhaps even everybody on my team could do it? Possibly, depending on the team and the company I'm in at that time. So how do I fight that as well? Well, that's why I love tools like Trello or Asana. monday.com where it's like, as long as I I can look in and see what's going on, then then I'm confident that things are happening. And I don't have to feel like I get involved as much. But also, when somebody that asks a question or answers the questions you gave, well, then I could go back and look at things historically that they've been updating and putting in there as well. But it's easy for them to raise their hand at certain moments and just say, Hey, can I need you to go take a look at this, I'd like a little more help on this.

Brandi Starr  20:22

And that is actually a good shift in talking about more tactically what this looks like, because I do like that, as an example, in having a project management tool, or some sort of system where work is being tracked, so that you do have that visibility, without having to hover, so to speak. Are there any other tactical things that, you know, you would recommend that people consider or evaluate, so that you can, you know, be in this space of where you feel like you're in control, you know, what's happening, you know, if you get asked by your CEO, or the board or whatever, like, you've got your arms around it, but you are able to be, you know, a leader that is more serving their team than, you know, being the authority, or authoritative leader? Are there any other tactical recommendations that you'd have? Yeah,

Kurt Uhlir  21:17

so there are some tools that come in, either if the company is wanting like a full kind of HR suite to do like, you know, OKRs, and whatnot, that'll do weekly reviews. But there's some really lightweight just apps you can bring into like Slack that just will prompt everybody, like at the day, use it whatever time of day you want. So Friday at 3pm. It'll remind everybody to come just doing a quick, short summary. And you can structure the templates about what did you get accomplished this week, and what are you working on next? It's a nice light way. And you can do that for the whole company or just for your teams as well and certain people. And I love that to be able to have to almost force everybody, including myself, to go back through and get that quick summary overview of what's been worked on. It's a good tactical way to do that. Now, there are some things like 15, five, and lattice that we'll do that broader but but you don't have to pay 10s of 1000s of dollars to bring this kind of system and concept in the other one really tactical, there's a few companies that do this, but I typically use one called fella that does some of the task management project management things. But I don't actually like it for that because it doesn't fully do. But Asana or Trello does, but it's basically it brings in Google Docs for every meeting on your calendar and your team's calendar. And so if you and I have a weekly one on one, or we have a team meeting, then that agenda is basically a Google doc that's created and fellow that anybody can go and add items to and you can structure it differently for every meeting and whatnot. And what I love for that is it. It does take training, but you force everybody in the team to say look, when you have ideas that come up. And this is really good for the remote teams where people are hesitant to hit slack. Or they'll just hit slack for anything where it's like, don't disturb my Zen's on times when there's something that they want to talk about, and they know that we have a shared agenda in fellow that's going to come in to come into our calendar, well, they just get out of their mind, they go edit the calendar, and would they know that it's going to be covered when we come to that meeting? And I love that for myself as well. Because so often, I'll want to ask for an update on something. So I'll just go add it to that team meeting next week. And sometimes when I go through the day before, and I go review that, well, it's our things have already been answered either in the agenda, because you can go and kind of do threaded comments, or while I got out of my mind, my hesitancy would have been, I would have come in and micromanage before and said, Hey, what are you doing here? Instead, I added to the agenda, and just by the nature of your job, you've already answered in part of the job. Oh, I need to back off a little bit. Because you were going to answer that to me already.

Brandi Starr  23:56

Yeah, and that is, that is a good one. Because I know, that is one of the places where I struggle is there are some times I'll be working on something and have this moment of like, OMG. I don't know what's happening related to this. Is it moving? Is it not? And I'll have like this moment of panic. And then I'm like, Okay, what's going on with this? What's going on with that? I don't see this, I don't see that. And I do have to like, curb those moments. Because I have recognized that when I go into that panic, it sends my team into a tizzy and nine times out of 10 they were already on it. But you know, it's somewhere I didn't look or you know, whatever. It's just I'm not having the visibility. And usually it is like, you know, they'll come back and they're like, Dude to do to do and I'm like, Cool, I can calm down now. And so, you know, it's like that is one of those things that can be challenging. Especially like, you know, I think I go up and down between the leadership at the 30,000 foot law bolta like getting my hands into the weeds? And that generally triggers it. Yeah,

Kurt Uhlir  25:05

I mean, I have the I have that vacillation as well. It's one of the areas where I found that, especially as I'm developing the direct reports to me, if I have a mid size or especially when I've had very large teams, one of the best ways for coaching them is telling them how I'm feeling. But giving them the very strict deadlines that says, hey, I expect, like, here's the dates and the times that I expect things to happen. And I don't want to come and ask you, if we're off track, if we're going to be off track, like, here's the date you own it. And, and if at any time, you feel like we're skewing away from that by more than like 2%, or 5%, your job is to come and raise that to me. And in almost giving them the empowerment that says you have x such extreme ownership of this, if things get off track, and I don't know about it, that's kind of your butt on the line, we're gonna have a real discussion on that. And you may get it wrong at times, and you may come to me too much with things and go, like, hey, every time something shifts by just a tiny little bit, okay, but let's back off a little bit. But I find that's one of the best conversation topics with my direct reports is tell them how I'm feeling. We give them Extreme Ownership of meeting those outcomes. And tell them normally the outcomes and the dates for like, doesn't matter when a drip campaign gets set up. Well, unless you have a holiday, but coming up probably not, like does something just a couple of days, but I can still give them my expectation and say, hey, look, I give this this is yours and make sure it happened. Tell me if I needed care about it. And so when I was at exp world holdings, owns exp Realty, the largest real estate brokerage in the country, I hired a non marketer into my marketing team. And he was a great business development guy beforehand. His job was to be my operations manager. So almost like a CFO and accompany his entire job was to say, look, here's all the SOPs, here's everything that's that runs Scott the way that I intended to be. And he was like, I don't know marketing, I said, but you know how to follow things. That's why we're so good at business development. So your job is to run my factory, so that I can go off with a small portion of the team and mad scientists the next things and not have to worry about the factory, you're my foreman. And when one of the manufacturing lines goes arrive, you come and tell me, and I don't ever want to have to know that factory machine is smoking, yet your job and he was exceptional on.

Brandi Starr  27:23

And I think that is, you know, one thing that I take away from what you're saying there it is defining the swim lane and the expectations and what success looks like. And I think that is something I would say is probably not happening well, in a lot of companies. And I'd say it's worse on both ends, like the really small companies tend to have no structure and no clarity. And the really big companies tend to have like, the job description and some things that are in their, you know, massive HR system. But I think that really like that level of clarity of like, not just this is your job description. But that level of clarity in terms of like, this is really what success looks like in this role at that really tangible level, then enables that person to have that litmus test of am I meeting that or not? And how do I prioritize my time and you know, all these sorts of things, because you are essentially giving them that Northstar? Right. And so one of my favorite questions that I always like to ask because I think I learned just as much hosting revenue rehab, as my guests do is the I don't know what I don't know. So is there anything that I have not thought to ask you about in being a servant leader, and how you know, leading your teams in that way I can help to drive performance of the business. Any other advice or thoughts that I haven't thought to ask about? This?

Kurt Uhlir  29:01

The one thing that with that is, I kind of touched on it, but I actually every single day. And often I'll do it in the morning, and I want to brush my teeth. But I go through this exercise to ask myself, what are the three, three things because it forces you to naturally want? What are the three things that I could that I'm probably or I could be potentially wrong about, like fundamentally wrong in my business today. And I know that there's always more than one because any of us that have been in a row roles like you have and I've had and those that are listening, like things come up on an annual basis that you you and your team have been doing for six months, 12 months, two years. And it's not just that like things shift. Maybe I was wrong on a content strategy a little bit or some branding, but things that were fundamentally just wrong decisions that you felt was right at the time. And like none of us intend to make wrong decisions and but I'm keenly aware that that wrong decision feels just like a right decision until the data comes out. And so I go in this little habit every day and then it was Some of my teams I'll bring, I'll bring this in as well, because they need to be part of this because I'm wanting them to voice just a gut feeling to your point about like swim lanes, part of a swim lane for me is also like, Hey, you might see things that could be going awry in another part of the organization, you don't have the communication there, you can't fully articulated. So why don't we just bring that out of you? Because like, I can share that with my peers, or maybe it's something with me, and just like, help me figure out what could I be wrong about. And so that's something you can do by yourself, but also something that you can do with your team. And in some cases, like, I've had a couple people, and it's a personality thing, I have to actually put that question on our weekly one on ones or I won't ask it.

Brandi Starr  30:44

And so that, that is that is a great one. And that may end up being our one thing, it brings me to my always my last question, talking about our challenges is just the first step and nothing changes, if nothing changes. And so in traditional therapy, the therapist gives the client some homework, but here at revenue rehab, we like to flip that on its head and ask you to give us some homework. And so you know, so often I will listen to podcast, or read books, or you know, whatever, and not really like feel all jazzed about making a change, see that there's a need, but not know where to start. So I always like to give the one thing, what is the one action that you would recommend for our listeners who recognize that they need to do better at, you know, at adopting a servant leadership approach?

Kurt Uhlir  31:33

You Great question. So this is something that cuts cuts me pretty hard, because I have to fight against this myself. You talk to my wife, or anybody that works for me, I'll tell everybody to go take vacation, and I don't really kind of come back to it. It's it is that I think the one thing is, Are you a servant leader, or are you authoritative leader? What do you think would happen to your team, if you just didn't show up to work for the next four weeks, you can pick eight weeks if you need to, but just didn't show up for the next four weeks. If if you're not confident that you're sure that the people reporting to you could make enough decisions to keep things at least pretty much status quo or not continuing proving them, you're an authoritative leader. And that doesn't, you know, it would, because it could be that you have more junior people, and you need to coach them more and train them to be better at their roles and give them more authority. But if you're uncomfortable with just disappearing tomorrow, or planning ahead to be gone for the next four weeks, not that you have to do it, then there's something underlying with how you're trusting or not trusting your team, how you're not developing them. So if you ask yourself that question, and you start to freak out, as I often then your your tactical thing is to say, Okay, what do I need to do different and how I work with my team over the next six months? So when I asked myself this question again in six months, and you should put it on your calendar, because if it's not in your calendar, you won't do it and you won't take the actions. And then if so, if you felt uncomfortable asking that question, go put on your calendar now, that says forces yourself for an hour to think about it in six months, and one day, and then start making some changes today.

Brandi Starr  33:11

I love that because I can say like I have gotten to when I take vacation, I no longer travel with my computer. And, you know, occasionally I'll check in an email in the mornings just to you know, make sure if anybody needs any immediate something. But generally speaking, when I'm on vacation, I am on vacation. And it is such a powerful thing to not be on vacation, worried about what's happening in the office and to not come back and you know, feel like overwhelmed because you know, nothing could move without you like to just know that things continued. You get your updates, but in general, business kept business saying while you were away, and like that is so powerful for mental health, self care, not getting burnout, all those sorts of things. So it is also self serving to be a servant leader.

Kurt Uhlir  34:10

Absolutely. And by all means, I hope some of the people that are listening have developed like my lifestyle, like do I need to take vacation, I have a life that I actually I love what I do workwise my wife and I own a large mountain property. And so we went to go work for a mountain property because it Starlink we go work for the mountain property and take the kids. So I was like, do I need to take two weeks or three weeks enjoy myself? No. But should I be able to if I just or something comes up sickness in the family. So that's the question for it.

Brandi Starr  34:39

So yeah, I love it. Well, Kurt, I have enjoyed our discussion, but that's our time for today. But before we go tell our audience how they can connect with you. So

Kurt Uhlir  34:52

my personal website and current user.com is the best way to kind of see some my writings get splintered off to LinkedIn or anywhere else And the other thing of the place would be the company I'm most excited about that I'm working with right now is in the homeless search space. And so it's E XE. Homes are easy home search.com. And so most people don't realize that it's a little setup makes over a billion dollars selling your your private information. And so we're taking a different approach to that to keep people's information confidential. And so that's kind of what I'm most excited about right now.

Brandi Starr  35:27

Very interesting. Well, we will make sure to link to your website. So wherever you are listening or watching this podcast, check the show notes and you'll be able to connect with Kurt. Well, Kurt, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for having me. Awesome. And thanks, everyone for joining us. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Kurt. I can't believe we're at the end. I'll see you next time.

Outro VO  35:53

You've been listening to revenue rehab with your host Brandi Starr. Your session is now over but the learning has just begun. join our mailing list and catch up on all our shows at revenue we have dot live. We're also on Twitter and Instagram at revenue rehab. This concludes this week's session. We'll see you next week.