The Tipping Point: Signs You're Ready to Outsource Marketing Efforts

Outro VO  00:05

Welcome to Revenue Rehab, your one stop destination for collective solutions to the biggest challenges faced by marketing leaders today. Now head on over to the couch, make yourself comfortable and get ready to change the way you approach revenue. Leading your recovery is modern marketer, author, speaker and Chief Operating Officer at Tegrita Brandi Starr

Brandi Starr  00:34

Hello, hello hello and welcome to another episode of revenue rehab. I am your host Brandi Starr and we have another amazing episode for you today. I am joined by Eric Huberman. And as the CEO and founder Eric launched Hawk media in 2014. growing the company valued to over 150 million and working with 3000 Plus brands worldwide. Hawk media is the fastest growing marketing consultancy in the United States working with brands like Red Bull, Verizon and Eddie Bauer. Prior to hawk media Eric successfully founded grew and sold to ecommerce companies by the age of 26. As a serial entrepreneur, national best selling author and marketing expert, Eric has been recognized by his industry peers through honors and awards, including Forbes magazine's 30 under 30. Ces skews 40 under 40, and Inc Magazine's Top 25 marketing influencers. Welcome to revenue rehab, Eric, your session begins now.

Erik Huberman  01:44

Perfect. Thank you for having me.

Brandi Starr  01:46

I am excited to have you your background is so impressive, I won't even start to tell you what I was doing at 26 While you were, you know, founding and selling off companies. So looking forward to learning from you today. Yeah, thank you. Awesome. Well, before we jump into our topic for today, I like to break the ice with a little woosah moments that I call buzzword. banishment. So tell me what buzzword would you like to get rid of forever?

Erik Huberman  02:18

Row as return on ad spend?

Brandi Starr  02:22

Ah, as I say that one. First one, you said roe as I was like, I don't think I've ever heard that one. But I definitely have heard return on ad spend. Why don't you like that one.

Erik Huberman  02:36

I think 99% of people that talk about it are measuring it or not measuring an actual return on their ad spend. They're measuring how much I spent this today, this week, this month, and how much I made today, this week, this month. And the issue with that is it doesn't take into account purchase cycles, it doesn't take into account lifetime value. It is such a misleading metric that doesn't really indicate how well it's performing for you the example I'll give what's it take to one is, if I am spending 1000 bucks a day a month, let's just say, right, we know it's $2,000 a day. And generally that's making me $5,000 a day, if tomorrow I decide to ramp up my spend from 1000 to $5,000. All that return is not going to come in in the same day. And there's a lot more complex way I can explain this. But like so if i Tomorrow, spend $5,000. And I make $5,000 Again, because to be real, almost nobody purchases instantly. Now I'm going well, my role has just went from 5x to 1x. So we're screwed, we got to cut everything let's stop doing this is what I'm saying this isn't hyperbole. I mean, this is actually what people do. And they throw in the towel, they panic, because they're looking at their quote row as, and that's one side of it. That's just the measurement side without understanding that people take time to buy something, and it takes people weeks to months to buy something. So that's a metric that I think worked when Facebook just worked, like it was, you know, the golden goose and it didn't, you know, put $1 in, get five bucks out worked for a while doesn't work that way anymore. And so you have to measure it appropriately like you do. Like you have to go back to old school style marketing and measure your media efficiency rating and things like that. And then the other piece of that when he talks about lifetime value, if I have a $30 subscription company, and I cost me $30 To get a customer if I see my role as is 1x Is that really my return? I'm seeing 1x and like people might then in their head go okay, but like with 1x, we're going to hopefully keep that person for six months. So that's $180 and data and they'll do that in their head versus actually just looking at that metric, which is CAC to LTV. So it's like I just think that the metric is really antiquated. It leads to a lot of cutting off people's noses to spite their faces and stepping over dimes to save pennies and whatever whatever other metaphor you want to talk about but it's yeah, just I actually have a section in my book that says row as is BS.

Brandi Starr  04:57

I love it. Yeah, I do. You think that there are a lot of those metrics that do trigger knee jerk reactions? And yes, I do support getting rid of those. And I think it'd be fairly easy for me to not talk about Roe as in this discussion. So we've gotten that off our chest. And for anyone listening, we're gonna stop talking about row ads and look at more meaningful metrics. So now tell me what brings you to revenue rehab today,

Erik Huberman  05:28

a great invitation. conversation about rehabbing revenue.

Brandi Starr  05:36

Yes. And so today, we are going to talk about the tipping point those signs that you are ready to outsource your marketing efforts. And so, you know, I believe in setting intentions, it gives us focus, it gives us purpose and most important, it tells our audience what they should expect from our discussions. So as we start talking about, you know, how heads of marketing can, you know, evaluate if it's time to start outsourcing? And what what would you like them to take away from the discussion?

Erik Huberman  06:09

Yeah, I would say, you know, and obviously, we can get in more details here. But the idea that it's ever time to outsource or time to insource, I think, is actually one of the bigger fallacies in the industry, like every major Fortune 2000 company uses agencies there, it's you should always use agencies, and you should always have certain things in house, it just depends on the stage of the business what that is, and where, frankly, you have your superpowers. Some companies are incredible at certain parts of marketing, and so use those. But at the end of the day, depending on what you're building, like your business is your business meaning like your whatever that product or service it is that you're selling, your job is to make that product or service the best it can absolutely be and the most enticing thing people want to buy. If you're not selling marketing services, the idea of building out an entire internal marketing team. It's like building every software that you use yourself, building every product that you use yourself. Like instead of buying desks from Varidesk, I'm gonna just start building I'm gonna start a, you know, carpentry service in the back of our office and build our own desk. That's how ridiculous it is. Because it's like, the obvious answer is almost no business can compete with our level of marketing ability. And so the idea that you're going to do it all yourself is crazy. Now, the idea that we're gonna do it all for you, when we aren't, we aren't internal, and we're going to just run everything for you is also not the right way to go. It's a balance and working in conjunction is really important. And then how that works is really that's where it varies company to company. 

Brandi Starr  07:37

Okay, so in thinking about, you know, not when not is it time since, you know, I agree wholeheartedly that it's always time. But thinking about those leaders that you know, there's always a balance of marketing spend versus headcount, and all those sorts of things. What is your advice in being able to discern what you should keep in house versus what you should outsource?

Erik Huberman  08:04

Yeah, I think, overall, like you need someone that's going to run marketing, I do believe in house, eventually, in the early days, maybe not maybe the seat that's the CEO or founder. But as you grow, you're going to need a head of marketing of some kind, because you're gonna need some of the can make decisions on behalf of a company, you can't have an agency can't do that. So that's going to be important. At some point, again, that'll fall on the owner, the CEO, the founder, until you can hire that person. As far as execution, most I would say, the way I think about ourselves is people should hire us when they need high level expertise part time. That's, that's the important part with an agency is like you need the top talent, you need people that are really good at what they do. But you don't need someone that's working 40 5060 hours a week to get it done, which most marketing channels, that's not the case. And so whether that's your advertising management, your email marketing, your SMS, your data and analytics, like you don't necessarily need someone that is that the hours count, you just need the result. That's where an agency makes sense. And the reason it does is not just the fact that you can get an efficiency where you don't have to pay for a full time person that's making, you know, let's say, $120,000 a year here, and we're charging you half that or less to have part of their time. That's the efficiency part of the financial side of it. But on top of that, you can like almost no business has a level of capability, software's insights that we do, like, we spent eight years building out Hawk AI, which we launched right before GPT. And basically, that's digesting 7000 companies marketing data, media data revenue data in real time, so that we can actually plug in your individual company benchmarking against what's happening in the market and in the industry, and actually know exactly where you're falling short, exactly what metrics we need to focus on and fix to optimize you. And also if it says you're doing really well somewhere, and it's still not working for your business, understand that it's actually a business model function that we have to fix as well. So like, being able to know that like, No, you're not going to hire a Facebook marketer off the street that can do that. And that's a kinda fallacy in the world is like, it's not just about the execution on the platform and being able to spin up an ad, it's about all the insights and all the knowledge you can have across the board to be able to educate on how you're doing there versus operating in a vacuum. And that's another piece of what's important there.

Brandi Starr  10:15

Yeah, and I think, you know, as I mean, we're in the same boat, as consultants, I have this conversation with heads of marketing all the time, where they are debating, bringing in a full time headcount versus, you know, bringing on us or another partner to, you know, do some other function. And one of the things that you said that I think is really important, that has to go into the equation, because in some cases, outsourcing is not always cheaper, if you go dollar for dollar, like if you were just trying to match salary versus expense with the agency. But what you hit on, I think, is really is a really key consideration. It is that insight, and that level of expertise, where you may hire, you know, someone that's got five, six years of experience at 120. And you might be spending, you know, 180, with an agency or consultancy, however, you are getting a body of people with, you know, considerably greater experience. Are you seeing those same things?

Erik Huberman  11:21

Yeah, that's yeah, that's a no brainer part of it. Absolutely. Like the people being only internal, you're operating in a vacuum. And so from a performance marketing standpoint, I believe you have to have outside party because you don't know how you're performing without someone that actually can see the forest from the trees. On top of that, we have this conversation a lot. So let's take, you know, the media spend side, this is a conversation that comes up, let's say someone's spending $300,000 a month with us, and we're charging 30 grand a month, I'm just using round numbers for the sake of argument. So they're spending $300,000 on media spend the word charging 30 grand to manage that, and they come to me and go, Hey, instead of paying you 30 grand a month, I could probably hire someone internally to manage this full time for let's say, 10 grand a month, we can save 20 grand a month, like we can go hire $120,000 salary person, you know, um, let's actually say 15. Because like, with bonuses and all that I would still, you know, not get too crazy, but 15 grand a month is what we can get. So we can save $15,000 a month on cost right now, by bringing this in house and not working with you. I go, Okay, so 300 grand a month, any business that's spending that on marketing, they have to be making, let's say 1.2 to $1.5 million, you got to be making four to five times your money on marketing, not row as but your media. And so they're if they're not making again, what's just take $1.2 million a month is the bare bones minimum, they're gonna have a lot of other business challenges anyways. And so it's, again, what's take that number, let's assume they're making 1.2 million at a bare minimum. So if we're spending 300 grand, we're making 1.2 million, they're telling me that they're gonna go cut a $15,000 savings, while risking some percentage of that $1.2 million. This is when we're not screwing up, like you know, and huge. Thankfully, we have a great team, it's very, very, very rare. That's a conversation of competency. It's usually a cost savings conversation. It's like you're about to try to save 15 grand, while risking $1.2 million. Like, think about that decision a little better. And it's again, educating people is really important in this, but they that's where I see the it go haywire sometimes, and I've made the same mistake, I've cut expenses on our sales and marketing side, not thinking about the outcome that it affects. And you end up with this huge revenue number that comes down a lot because you save again, if I save 10% of my marketing expenses, but that brings 10% of my revenue down, that's not a good thing. Because I'm not the one here, you're losing a lot. And so again, when they're talking about saving a percentage of a percentage of the revenue, and you're getting that $15,000 to risk that 1.2 million, I always go like I promise, we are making up for that expense. Like I am very confident that we can outperform another person by you know, what presented is that it's what less is that? 1.1% just over point one 2%.

Brandi Starr  14:09

Yeah, no, I agree completely. And it does seem that a lot of times those decisions are really done, just looking at Oh, we can save these costs. But to your point, the risk of revenue, I would definitely say is more than one to one, like by cutting that costs, you're actually risking a much larger portion of that revenue.

Erik Huberman  14:30

Yep. And I did the math around 1.2%. But still, it's that risk of like, trust me, we can outperform another market or by 1%. I'm very confident in that. And that's what you're risking by making the change. And so it's the exact it's understanding that there's an infinite opportunity cost and marketing. And so treating it as a CFO would and just like trying to do a cost savings exercise. The opportunity also comes down pretty significantly. And so that's important to think about when you're looking at how to build this out.

Brandi Starr  14:59

Yeah, and so So as you've had these conversations with clients in the past, I have seen scenarios where the head of marketing gets it, like they understand and feel the same as exactly what we're talking about. But it is the CFO that they are having to battle, and they're looking at spreadsheets and numbers and sells. And so how do you have that conversation with a head of marketing to enable them to be able to, you know, get the CFO to see that opportunity cost as well? Because I do think that I would say, you know, most CMOS, like, understand the trickle down of cutting things, but a lot of times feel like their hands are tied.

Erik Huberman  15:42

Yeah, I would say what I just said the way I just explained it, a CFO will understand, that's why I am I have we have both because we have an investment fund as well, like I said, on kind of both sides, I run our own finance and finances and a lot of ways. So when I look at these numbers, it is just explaining like, yeah, we can cut that. But here's the downstream effect of it from a financial perspective, like, the problem is, is when it's not explained to a CFO from a numbers basis, and it's just like, No, no, we need that, like we you know, that's great for our brand. Those things don't mean anything to a CFO, but saying that fit again, let's use the same example that $15,000 You want to save is managing 1.2 million in revenue for us right now. So if we hire someone else, all they have to do is 1% Worse than our current partner who we agree isn't doing a bad job. And we've already lost in this situation. And that's a 1% shift like we're taking a switching risk to save a 1% outcome. Like that doesn't seem like a prudent approach when it if it would kind of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Now, there's other ways to do this. We want to save money here. And we're not performing we need to talk about where that needs to change. But this is not where we change. Now, again, this doesn't go into fact, what's the you're working with someone that's not good at marketing than this, then the switching cost isn't the function, but it's when this becomes a cost savings exercise. That's when it's I think an issue. This shouldn't be where you're saving money.

Brandi Starr  17:00

Yeah, and in most cases, it does come down to cost savings. Because I do think like when there's an issue with the actual agency or partner, like that's an easy decision in you know, whether you're changing agencies or, you know, making a different change there. I want to jump back to something you said earlier. So you said clearly, there needs to be someone in house to run marketing. Are there any other key functions and marketing that you feel across the board are important to have in house?

Erik Huberman  17:32

Again, it's I don't think it's ever that cut and dry? Because there are whizzes, you know, I do believe you need to see the forest, from the trees on Facebook. But there are people that are so good at it individually, that if they're fully dedicated, they're really rare to find, but they might be good. Generally, I mean, I don't know many companies that don't get their media bought out out of house, many successful companies, I should say, it's very rare. Email marketing, it just depends again, like, it's really good to get insights out of house. And there's usually a balance. So a lot of bigger companies we work with do both. They have someone internally to manage all that, but also work with us on the execution. I'd say content and social, a lot of times can be in house, you have a really good content person. But again, it's about having that great person too. And this the other part we get into, most companies aren't that exciting to work for, like everybody thinks their company is exciting. But like, this is one of the reasons I started the company is when I'm working with manufacturers in East LA, like the best marketers aren't gonna go drive to East LA to work in a manufacturing facility. So like, they're not going to get access to that talent. So it's also depending on your company, you have to be really honest with yourself, am I gonna be able to attract some of the best people like at this point, we've been rated the top performance marketing agency in the country, we have all these accolades, we've created an environment, we have stability, we've been around 10 years, like, there's a lot of reasons someone wants to come work here. And if you're trying to do it in house, you're complete competing with me for talent, and insight. And so it's like, you have to be truthful. Like if you're a fast growing brand, and super exciting, etc, you might be able to track some really talented people. If not, you're getting someone off the street that frankly, you're I want to say you're getting what you pay for because what you might be paying just as much. But you have to also be honest, you're like, why are they working for me? Like why can they take a more exciting job if they're here? If you have a business that for a marketer isn't necessarily as exciting. And that's a challenge too, is getting that tracking that talent?

Brandi Starr  19:26

Yeah, no, that is a great point. I know, early in my career, I was doing marketing for property and casualty insurance, which is less than exciting, but it was very much like you know, that foot in the door and it was that was how I saw it was like this was my opportunity to flourish. Not that it was you know, the greatest place and that example like

Erik Huberman  19:47

that, when you're early stage, you need to get your foot in the door. You need to learn like that makes sense, but you are learning with them. And so if you're naturally talented that can get be great, but like I assume you're working on under someone, I'm curious what the head of marketing there was,

Brandi Starr  20:03

yeah, the head of marketing, it was sort of divided, I essentially, there was a CMO. But based on the org structure, they were really far removed. So our heads of marketing, it was kind of dual, in that you were marketing to the corporations that were offering us as voluntary benefits company, and then also marketing to the end, you know, the employee of those. And so you had two different heads. So it was really interesting startup mentality as it's a different conversation for a different day. But I do agree that there is a talent component that you, you know, are looking at when you're talking about like, Who are you going to be able to bring in house? And you know, I hadn't really thought about that. But that does play a role in terms of what do you need to outsource versus keep in house is where you know, what talent can we realistically bring in,

Erik Huberman  21:00

when it all goes back to the infinite opportunity cost and marketing, there is an infinite opportunity, but you there is no point that you are executing perfectly effort. And so if that's the case, every decision you make, is either accelerating that opportunity or stifling it in the way that you build this out. It's when you hire people just to sit in seats. Like I get with it here to like our own marketing, where it's like, you have the difference between someone that just does what they're, you know, checks the boxes I posted on social today, I did this and takes that little extra step to be like, Hey, I posted on social commented on some other threads, engage with our audience, etc, those little extra steps, and saying the right things and how they say it, and then what they do to follow up and see if they can get that person to go buy something like all those little things all add up incrementally. And so executing really well on marketing is the difference between success and failure, because it's a competitive landscape. So if you're not doing it, right, all your competitors are and that's like, I also say, like, you know, with clients, I want to work with us, it's like, do you want to win a Super Bowl, because if you don't, if you want to, you know, be in peewee football, like, you know, Pop Warner, like, then do that. Like, don't don't be we're not the team. But like, if you're really trying to win, like, you want to win a Super Bowl work with a team that's already been there. And thankfully, we've grown a ton of brands from nothing to multibillion dollar brands, we've worked with the top companies in the world, like, we know what we're doing on every stage of this now. And I'm not saying we're the only ones there's a few of us, but there are only a few of us out there that have done this. And so if you're trying to scale and grow, finding a partner that has succeeded, and what you're trying to accomplish is very important, internal or external, because just throwing some bodies at it that and letting them figure it out, like, yeah, 90 or 1% of the time that can work out and it has 1% of the time, but I don't like those odds for my business.

Brandi Starr  22:44

Yeah. And so given that you've worked with companies of all sizes, and getting them to all sizes, what do you see as the difference in thought process or approach to what's held internal versus external? As a company grows? Because I know, that's a question I hear a lot is, we're really small, versus we're pretty established versus you know, we're a bajillion dollar company, you know, global offices, how do you see that vary from size of business,

Erik Huberman  23:17

it goes back to where the core competencies and expertise of the business are. Because we've worked with startups out of someone's spare bedroom, and we work with Fortune one hundreds. So I, there isn't a stage where you do this all yourself, or you do it outsourced or anything, it just it's not how it works. And frankly, what I see is a lot of companies that start to hit sort of the eight figure range, they start to get really excited, like, Oh, we're a big business, now we need to do this ourselves. And I'd say eight times out of 10, they end up taking their entire company, because they tried to fix a bunch of things that weren't broken, and make a bunch of, you know, drastic changes that were really done. I watched that with a big shoe brand we worked with, we got a huge revenue. And then they again, got excited, raise some money. We're like, we're gonna do this all ourselves. And I was wondering, like, Did we do anything wrong? Like, do you think we're not doing a good job? Like, no, no, I think it's just time. Like that is a really irrational decision or not a good decision. I don't know what that company I think it's still around, but it hasn't done well since. And I've talked to them like a year later. And they're like, well, now we have less money, we're struggling, can you help, and then he couldn't even afford to get new health or make another switch. So that's something we see a lot is people making that decision, and then it just biting them. So I would say it's not ever a rip the band aid thing. So an example I give is what let's say you outsource your content. And then you go, Hey, we really want to step up what we're doing on social, I would say, Don't fire if someone's doing a good job on your social media, don't fire them. But if you want to step it up, hire both. If you think that that's going to be a good return, but like don't cut what's working. I think that's the fallacy like I look at marketing as you keep adding to it. Like you do all the things that are working, obviously cut things that aren't working, but as you find channels that work Don't turn them off to turn something else on. And I don't mean just channels like Facebook works for us. I also mean, the partners and the people. Like I have a Facebook marketers doing great job making great returns for us objective way like we know what the metrics are in the market, this person is doing a good job, keep that person but then go okay, but now I want to add Tik Tok. And I want to add Google and I want to add direct mail and I want to add email marketing and SMS button go down the list. And then once you have that all running, start to optimize it. But don't get rid of people that are doing a good job. That's always crazy to me. And so as when it comes to, again, bringing in house to me, it's more where is your agency not able to complement enough? Or where do you need, again, high full time expertise, whether that's high level or low level, I need someone that's just putting the hours in, that's where you start to build it in house.

Erik Huberman  25:48

Okay, and just real quick, not emotional level, I think people mix expertise with time, like a good person doesn't need to spend 50 hours a week to optimize a Facebook campaign. Like, it's just not a thing. So the idea that if they spent more time on it, it would do better, like make sure you're not trying making those decisions. It's like where do you need output to be more and more and more and more time and be better?

Brandi Starr  26:10

Okay, and are there scenarios where you have seen where, and I think we hit on this a little bit in the last question, but I want to go a little bit deeper on it in something is being done in house, and you reach that point where you say, You know what, I'm going to let go because I know letting go of headcount is always a big deal, that I'm going to let go of this resource internally and move to exclusively outsource for a particular, you know, function.

Erik Huberman  26:44

Yeah, it's when you see either, again, obviously, it's an obvious one, when you like when there's two different parts of this decision. One is, if that person isn't good, you should move on, whether it's in house or out of house, like if they're not performing for you. That's number one. And you have to have the metrics to do so to know that that's actually the case, because doing this stuff, because you emotionally don't feel like you're the right person, you have to be careful with that. But letting someone go, that's not a performer. That's that one thing. Now making the switch from in house to outsourced that's where you feel like you're not achieving all your opportunities, because you don't have that outside perspective. And you could get more scale with an outsourced team. Because for us, we're flexible, we can onboard different expertise all the time, move things around, like again, that there's a lot of benefits outsourcing. And so it's, again, when you don't need that person, full time in house for the role that they're covering. But you need that role, and you need to, but you need higher expertise, more insights, things like that, that's when I would outsource. The other side of it is again, when you it's really comes down to that because if the person has the skill sets, again, we're not assuming they're in an underperformer. If they have all the skills, and they're doing a good job and everything's performing then don't like if you found that magical person that's actually good at a job. And they're doing a great job. And objectively, there's not much better you could do then if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It goes both ways.

Brandi Starr  28:04

Yeah, and I would definitely agree wholeheartedly there. And it is one of those things that throughout my career, I have seen go both ways. Like I remember being at a company where all of a sudden, the decision was made that nothing was being outsourced, like everything had to be brought inside. And then once they figured out what that headcount would look like, That decision was very quickly reversed. Because, you know, there was there was no way to scale. And I've also seen places where, you know, whole departments were released in favor of outsourcing. And in some cases, it was outsourcing to low cost. In other cases, it was outsourcing to just broaden the scope and scale. So I do think it happens really all over the board. And as you said, there's no easy are clean decision where it's always one way or another.

Erik Huberman  28:58

Right, exactly. And it's again, making sure you're making these decisions rationally, not emotionally. That's where I see people go wrong, too. Because I just feel like and it's like when when anyone needs in a business decision with I just feel like, like, I'm not saying don't trust your gut, but like, make sure to rationalize it. Because sometimes you feel that way because of insecurities because of other things that have nothing to do with the success of the business.

Brandi Starr  29:19

Yeah, that is a great point as well. Well, talking about our challenges is just the first step and nothing changes if nothing changes. In traditional therapy, the therapist will give the client some homework, but here at revenue rehab, we like to flip it on its head and ask you to give us some homework. So if the heads of marketing, listening, you know if this has resonated with them, they're struggling with, you know, figuring out where they should in house versus outsource. What would you give as your one thing, what's the action item that they can you know, where can they start in figuring out this decision for their business?

Erik Huberman  29:57

So it's a bit of a shameless plug. But it's free, so I won't hesitate with it. We built that. So Hawk AI, which is just hawk.ai H, A Wk IE, you can go in and plug all your marketing into it and can tell, it'll tell you immediately how you're benchmarking against the market. So you can immediately see how are we performing? How are things and that, that we built that because we saw that we had anecdotal data on like, here's how you're performing. We know. And I watched how CMOS usually do this, as they call a couple of friends and go, what's your row as on Facebook? What's, how's this going? Okay, then we're doing okay. So we just built the benchmarks and built the metrics. So you can actually just go plug it in and learn right now, how are you performing? How are you measuring up. And don't be shy about it, because I've actually watched a lot of CMOS avoid doing it, because they don't want their own scorecard. Like, you need a report card, you need to actually know where you're missing and where you're at. So that you know where you can double down. And that'll give you quick insight into, these are the things I need to fix.

Brandi Starr  30:50

Okay, and so then that helps you to identify the places where you want to tap into external resources. Well, that I think that is great advice and a great place to start. We'll make sure to link to that as well. And Eric, I have enjoyed our discussion. But that's our time for today. But before we go tell our audience, how can they stay connected with you? I know you've got a book. And we've talked about a number of things. So give us a shameless plug on how people can stay connected. Sure, yeah.

Erik Huberman  31:22

I mean, feel free to pick up a book. It's the hawk method available anywhere, Audible, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, etc. I have my podcast Hawk talk as well. And I'm pretty accessible at or slash Eric Huberman on any of the social media platforms.

Brandi Starr  31:37

Awesome. Well, we will make sure to link to the book and the podcast as well as your LinkedIn. So wherever you are listening or watching this podcast, you'll be able to connect with Eric. Well, Eric, thanks so much for joining me. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Awesome. And thanks, everyone, for joining us. I hope you have enjoyed my conversation with Eric. I can't believe we're at the end. I'll see you next time.

Outro VO  32:05

You've been listening to Revenue Rehab with your host Brandi Starr. Your session is now over but the learning has just begun. join our mailing list and catch up on all our shows at revenuerehab.live. We're also on Twitter and Instagram at revenue rehab. This concludes this week's session. We'll see you next week.