Your Company Rep Matters: How GenZ is Flexing Their Purchasing Power

[Intro]

Welcome to Revenue Rehab, your one stop destination for collective solutions to the biggest challenges faced by marketing leaders today. Now head on over to the couch, make yourself comfortable and get ready to change the way you approach revenue. Leading your recovery is modern marketer, author, speaker and Chief Operating Officer at Tegrita, Brandi Starr.

[00:34] Brandi Starr:

Hello, hello, hello and welcome to another episode of revenue rehab. I am your host Brandi Starr and we have another amazing episode for you today. I am joined by Ali Jawin. Ali is the VP of Global Marketing at The RepTrak Company. Ali is on a mission to demystify the process that drives marketing success. As a marketing leader who has built her career designing growth strategies and programs for digitally focused global organizations, Ali blends a bottom line approach with a talent for igniting brand recognition through impactful marketing campaigns, delivering quantifiable results on a global scale. Ali, welcome to Revenue Rehab, your session begins now.

[1:28] Ali Jawin:   

Fabulous! Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be a part of this.

[1:33] Brandi Starr:   

Well, I am excited to talk to you as well. But before we jump into our topic today, I like to do a little icebreaker, have a little whoosah moment that I like to call buzz word banishment. And so this is where you can tell me a buzz word that you absolutely hate that you'd like us to put in the box and to stop saying forever.

[1:58] Ali Jawin:   

So this one, I was thinking about it for a while because it's going to sound very strange based on what we're about to talk about. Because no spoilers, we're going to be talking about reputation. I almost want to banish it though, but as a noun and not a verb and here's why. That whenever I think of reputation anyway, the first thing that comes to mind is some BBC costume drama and a young woman who can't do something completely reasonable because it's going to ruin her reputation, very Jane Austen and Petticoat. Whereas it's actually really more of a vibrant living and breathing thing. So reputation caveat, noun, not a verb.

[2:42] Brandi Starr:   

Okay, I was going to say, as a mom who has gone through teenage years, four times, I definitely have had the it's going to ruin my reputation, conversations, and it's just face palm moment. So I will take putting reputation in the box.

[3:02] Ali Jawin:

Yeah, it is a downer word. Whereas again, when it's a verb, it's much more empowering and uplifting. But reputation as a noun sounds like it's going to be a downer.

[3:15] Brandi Starr:   

Okay. So first time, we've banished the word that is the actual topic. So it is very hard not to say reputation through the rest of this conversation, but I'm going to try.

[3:29] Ali Jawin:

We're going to verb it though again. That's why I gave the distinction.

[03:32] Brandi Starr:

There we go. Okay, so now that we've gotten that off our chest, tell me what brings you to Revenue Rehab today?

[3:41] Ali Jawin:   

So every year, The RepTrak Company does something pretty cool, which is measure the top 100 most repeatable companies globally. I mean, every year it's interesting, because we every year learn something new. But this year was super interesting, because 2020, dumpster fire all around, pretty miserable experience. And in a time where we really just were not -- I would say not impressed, but there was a lot of political turmoil, not being sure where to look, we turned to companies. Because there were companies saying we're all in this together, Black Lives Matter, ESG. And 2021 was the time for them to live up to that promise. And our data this year says guess what? They didn't and the public noticed, and the public is pissed off, especially GenZ and that's where we'd love to dig a little bit deeper and with you today.

[4:38] Brandi Starr:   

Okay, that is exciting. But before we get in, I know that I'm not an expert on reputation, other than dealing with teenagers. So to help us tackle this challenge, we have brought in a specialist and a specialist that you're very familiar with. So Lexi Taylor Wan is the Director of Content Marketing at The RepTrak Company. Lexi is a lab rat, turned market researcher, turned content marketer, specializing in transforming proprietary SAS data into powerful marketing stories. So welcome to Revenue Rehab Lexi, we are excited to have you. 

[05:23] Lexi Taylor Wan:  

Me too. 

[05:26] Brandi Starr:

So thinking about this, I always like to set intentions in anything that I do. It really helps me to focus, gives the conversation purpose, and it helps our listeners know exactly what to expect. So Lexi, being the expert, I'd like to hear from you. What are your best hopes for our talk today? Or what would you like to be different after our session?

[5:50] Lexi Taylor Wan:    

Well, if I may plagiarize my own self, I am the author of the GRT 100 this year. But really our big takeaway this year was that providing a consistent experience doesn't mean staying the same, it means continuous improvement. My grandma used to always say, What a difference a year can make and this year's data absolutely proved that everyone thought that it was smooth sailing, but really we saw the public become demystified, when they were really kind of doing more of the same, they wanted more, they wanted that continuous improvement.

[6:19] Brandi Starr:   

Awesome. So thinking about the topic, and especially coming out of 2020, I can think back, early in my career, I've been in marketing 20-ish years now. And reputation was about being the biggest about, you know, pensions and retirement plans. And those sort of tangibles that didn't really speak to the heart of the organization. And to your point Ali, what we did see is a lot of performative ally ship, that happened in 2020, especially in light of the Black Lives Matter movement, and some of the other political things that were happening. A lot of companies spoke out. They put up the black square for their profile, or even in supporting other communities, they do all of these things. But when you look at the employees within the company, it's like I heard, I saw lots of LinkedIn chatter. Oh, my company's put up the black square, but I feel like I'm being hit with micro-aggressions every day. And in episode one, I talked to MK Getler. And we were talking about the anti-bias CMO, and how it really does start in marketing in pushing that forward. And they mentioned the same thing that you did Ali that, you know, GenZ really is not here for the performative nature of companies and really cares about reputation. So I'm interested in both of your thoughts on that, like what you're seeing in the data, and what your thoughts are of what's happening in the industry?

[8:10] Ali Jawin:  

Lexi, I'd love for you to maybe dive into the data a little bit more exactly what we saw in GenZ, and how it was different than the other generations.

[8:17] Lexi Taylor Wan:  

Absolutely. Before I do that, sorry, I got my data notes in front of me, this was a mac daddy of a document. And as much time as I spent with it, it's never quite enough. So before we jump into any of that, I did want to talk about one of our drivers. So when we talk about reputation, it's very living, tangible. And we were founded by academics and run by the best data science team around these days. And so how we measure reputation is very comprehensive. We break it down into a variety of factors, including our drivers, and one of those drivers is conduct. We measure that in fair and during business, whether company operates in an ethical fashion, and whether or not they're open and transparent with whatever it is that they're doing. And we saw that that was one of our notable downturns this year, across generations. So it's not even that GenZ wanted more, it's that everybody wanted more. So we've just set a higher standard, it's no longer about what you do, it's going to be about how you do it. In reputation communication is the absolute name of the game. And we see a lot of companies very trepidatious, about providing updates about their shortcomings. Problem is that the public didn't forget that you made those promises in the first place. So it's better to say, these are the, you know, wins that we've achieved. And these are places where we're still falling short, but we're still working towards that and here's how we're going to do it. 

[9:37] Brandi Starr:   

It's a great, great point there because it's almost like everything that's happened the last couple years, people's BS meters are up. It is one of those things where no one's taking anything at face value, they're not putting up with the lip service so to speak. It is like, what are you actually doing, show and prove?

[10:06] Ali Jawin:

And I think in some ways brands set themselves up for this because you know, especially in the early days of the pandemic you bought a cat carrier eight months ago, and the CEO is sending you an email saying I'm here for you in this moment. And yes, we didn't really think they were there for that. But all of this was said, and we expected more follow through. And again, I think this is a change in the sense that we now have the tools and technology to actually follow brands and keep them honest. To be fair five years ago with a brand said something, it would have been a lot harder to track and share publicly, if they were actually keeping that promise those days. These days, it's the opposite. People remember, they're paying attention, and they have the tools and technology to see if you're following through on that or not?

[10:59] Lexi Taylor Wan:    

Well, more than that, they have the opportunity to communicate with each other to say, have you seen this change? Because I haven't forgotten. The internet is forever. And I don't want to call it any brand names specifically right now. But we did see some companies make a lot of major environmental commitments, the same one about every five years. And you never made good on the first one, and now the community around you is saying, I remember them doing this? Do you remember them doing this? 

[11:29] Brandi Starr:   

Yeah, I even think about Reddit, and all of the sub-reddits that end conversations, it's almost like, I mean, I'm not a big Reddit user so a little bit of ignorance there. But from what little bit I do follow, Reddit is almost like an accountability platform. In addition to the different communities, it is a very common place where I do see some of these conversations spurring up around what brands have promised, what it's like on the inside working there, all those sorts of things.

[12:04] Ali Jawin:

So actually it's very interesting, because as much as community is important, and we look towards each other, we found a really interesting data point when it came to how people viewed different industries. Lexi, would you mind sharing sort of some of the data we saw around media and where a lot of our distrust lies?

[12:25] Lexi Taylor Wan:    

Oh absolutely. Your industry analysis is absolutely fascinating, because it shows how our priorities and interactions with brands change over a year. So in 2020 - 2021, we saw a big increase on opinion of household products. Because we were spending more time indoors and having the right sanitizing products was everything at the beginning. So it really tells the story. And so we saw this major downturn with media and entertainment. Again, as through 2020-2021, your streaming services were your lifeline. Our category of media companies kind of spreads a little bit, it include social media and traditional media brands like Netflix. But what we saw was that while traditional media brands were able to kind of maintain their space in the good graces, coming up with fresh new content, we did see that social media brought down the industry as a whole. So we're doing more research than ever before, we want to know what our friends think about things. I don't think I've bought a single item without reading the reviews in years. But what we're seeing through social media, we don't necessarily define it as attention with the social media company. When we saw Facebook in trial over this past year, we put a lot of our pride on privacy, how they understood the long term lasting effects to be on children. But really what we're seeing is more of a frustration with one another. This was the time where everyone had an opinion and the time to share it. And we were really looking to our social media big brother to flag what is fake news, what can be altered, what's not quite there. And really what we're feeling is a frustration with one another. Why is my crazy aunt saying this? She doesn't know what she's talking about. And we're hoping that media companies will step in and save us from ourselves. 

[14:22] Brandi Starr:  

Very interesting perspective. Because I really thought the decline in Facebook specifically, their reputation had a lot to do with the government trials and some of the privacy things that have come out. But to your point, there is a lot more, like Facebook is almost the vessel that people are spewing all sorts of things. And it's like that reputation is being tarnished by the users and not necessarily by the brand.

[15:00] Ali Jawin:   

Absolutely. So it wasn't just Facebook that saw this downturn, we're seeing it in different social media companies as well. So some overlap. Facebook owns Instagram nowadays, but what we're seeing is that this dissatisfaction is widespread.

[15:18] Brandi Starr:

So thinking about this data, so you have collected a lot of data, you've got good and I do want to talk a bit about GenZ as well. But before we shift there, what do we do with the information? If I'm a brand, and let's say, I'm represented in there, or I see things that resonate with me what is the expectation or direction that we would expect these companies to take, understanding how their reputation is being impacted?

[15:54] Ali Jawin:   

So I think a lot of that comes to what we call the perception gap, that in event, we're not measuring, or this study doesn't measure what companies actually did. There could be brands on our study that in fact, did live up to their promises but didn't communicate it, and therefore, they're being punished for it. On the same way, there can be brands that said they did it, didn't really do it, they're getting credit for it now. But when push comes to shove, and it comes to light, because it always comes to light, they will be punished. So one of the big things we say, to anyone reading the report, to our customers, is you need to know where you are, how are you perceived and does that match the reality? And so often it doesn't. That companies think, oh, we're just doing this, therefore, we'll know. But if a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, did it even fall. You need to really confidently announce what you're doing. Even if you don't like it, even if you don't have all the answers yet, it's really communicate where you are because if you don't do that, how is anyone else supposed to know?

[17:04] Brandi Starr:   

So I think that's one of our first takeaways for CMO's listening, is you have to be both honest and outspoken. So what I'm hearing is, don't say you're doing or going to do things that you aren't going to actually put legs to. But in addition to that, the things that you are doing, you have to toot your own horn a little bit. And I honestly feel like even thinking about our own internal company, and of course, we're a small brand. But there have been times where we've had the conversation of, oh we're making this change, or we're doing this thing, should we say something about it publicly? And it's always been like, that's such a small thing, maybe not, or maybe we'll just put it here. And it actually sounds like we're doing ourselves a disservice because when it comes to DE&I like we DEIMB we do a lot around, making sure that we are a fair and equitable company and very inclusive. But we don't talk about a lot of those like practices and processes, because it's like, oh, this is just a process. This is just the thing. But what I'm hearing is brands of all sizes small to large, when you are doing the right things, you need to be telling people that you're doing the right things.

[18:34] Ali Jawin:   

Absolutely. And especially when it comes to employee branding. And you know, we all know what this job market is like, this is one of the things especially GenZ, which I know we're about to get into, but across all generations, they really want to see that you're treating your employees well. Actually, one of the other reputation drivers that we looked at is, the willingness to work for is what is it like to be an employee and those scores were down also across everywhere? Lexi, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that was the one that saw the biggest drop this year. And so much of that is that people don't think they're treating their employees well. So if you're trying to hire, no matter what size of brand you are, showing that you care, even if it's just a small initiative, how are people going to know that you are a brand that cares about these things if you don't tell them?

[19:25] Lexi Taylor Wan:    

Absolutely. Perception is reality. And one of the kind of punch lines we use here at Red Track is that reputation exists whether you measure and manage it or not. So it's best to be leading with that when we look at workplace specifically we measure factors of like equal opportunities in the workplace. Are you rewarding employees fairly? Are you concerned for employee well-being and that saw a major dip this year? It was our biggest drop. And it's only threatening to get worse unless you communicate. This is what we're doing well.

[19:56] Brandi Starr:   

And I think that's actually a perfect segue into talking about GenZ, because one thing that I am seeing in the workforce now that the two years that everyone was at home as a result of COVID, has really highlighted is the importance to I mean, everyone really, but GenZ, I'm seeing this a lot more around what is the structure of the role, the company, the work life balance. At one point, I can think about my generation, I'm Gen X, like, I remember when ping pong tables in the break room, and you know, bringing in snacks and beer on Friday those were sought after perks. Like I remember going on an interview, like, who they got Foosball in the break room? I'm like more interested in this role in that role, because their break room sucks. And now at this stage in life, I'm like, was I really evaluating companies on their break room?

[20:55] Ali Jawin:   

Well, before we get to Lexi and GenZ, one thing that actually cracks me up the most about this report is that the generation that saw the biggest increase in happiness, I believe was millennials, and are sort of flexing, I've been joking about this, though, I think there's a grain of truth that the reason Millennials are happier is that we're finally not broke, or a lot of money can't buy happiness. Like finally! There's something about millennials getting older but Lexi, I'll hand it over to you for GenZ. 

[21:24] Lexi Taylor Wan:    

Absolutely about millennials getting older. And we have to remember that while GenZ is just now entering the workforce, the oldest of the millennials are 40. So they've had this time of really transitioning as same with Gen X is that this transition of coming out of the Great Recession, trying to find a job within that now suddenly, we get to work at home, unlimited vacation days. So seeing that change and feeling that excitement is absolutely real but what we are seeing in our data is that we are more disappointed than we were before those were even offered. So expectations are rising across generations. So it's important to remember that but let's get to GenZ. I feel like GenZ is such a sexy topic right now. Like everyone wants to know more about the new kids on the blog, what are they like they just entered the workforce, they have tons of purchasing power, because they're getting their first paychecks. So what are they up to?

[22:19] Ali Jawin:

Yes, and that you know why this is such a hot topic for me is kind of twofold. One, I think GenZ gets very similar to millennials, when millennials were this age. It kind of gets a bad rap in that, you know, it seems like GenZ is now the ones getting blamed for everything. But more important than that is I feel like because GenZ is just entering the workforce, understanding what drives them and getting ahead of that is the way that companies are going to be able to be sustainable and relevant for the long term. Because those companies that wait till GenZ are like the decision makers, you're like, behind the ball. And I think those reputations are going to tank. So yeah, definitely dig into the data, because I'm always interested in the data. And then we can kind of talk about it a little more.

[23:17] Lexi Taylor Wan:  

Absolutely well, and it's important to remember that it's not GenZ that we're feeling frustrations with its any young person ever. Earlier in my career, I wrote an entire piece that was dedicated to how Gen X was the problem generation. When they enter the workforce. Same with boomers like we just have this unnerving frustration with whoever the Jungians are in the office. Because we were once then we become jaded and afraid of death, in my opinion, but that's a little bit too much. We've also reached our first threshold of millennials not understanding the younger generation in our piece. We did use the example of the SNL skit with Timothy [inaudible 23:55] and Pete Davidson during the hip hop roundtable where they mocked GenZ SoundCloud, rappers. I couldn't think of a more succinct way to say, Welcome to the world GenZ, we officially don't understand you, even the people who are younger in the office and should be your allies.

[24:13] Ali Jawin:

Lexi, would love for you to sort of share in like some of the specific ways that GenZ was displeased.

[24:20] Lexi Taylor Wan:    

Oh, let me tell you. So when we look at generation and all perceptions of ESG, do you see that GenZ came in the lowest they have the highest expectations and they simply weren't met. They're very excited to be a part of the world. And most importantly, they have very high ESG standards. So those who might be unfamiliar, ESG stands for environmental, social governance and is a measure of company's ethical efforts. You know, it's used by investors. It's used by employees, and it's used by consumers as well. So we also see that they were the most jaded in terms of interpreting organization's ESG efforts. So they're not meeting the environmental promises. They're expecting, they're not meeting the social commitments that they're anticipating. And they're not meeting the governance aspects either, which is how the company is managed within itself.

[25:10] Brandi Starr:   

Okay, so what I'm hearing is we've got high expectations, and companies are coming in real low in perspective. And I know ESG is have also been a hot topic lately, which it sounds like, it's good that that is a hot topic now, because this is getting more and more important. So connect this for me, and I know, Ali you are Head of Global Marketing. So I'd love to hear from you just outside of -- in addition, should I say to what you're seeing in the data? How does this impact you in your role? How you're making decisions, like let's, you know, talk to the CMOS that are listening heads of marketing? Like, how are we internalizing this information, in order to do better be better?

[26:00] Ali Jawin:   

It's interesting, because it's actually something that I really struggle with. It's funny, we were talking today about a organic LinkedIn post. And so often our internal structure, I want to think it's not going to be interesting, that we should always be focusing on the value that we're going to bring to our clients. And it's only today that we got a hilarious picture internally, over Passover, and someone had a picture of their aunt's dog getting Bar Mitzvah, and we're like, this is a great moment to show our [inaudible 26:32]. It literally took a dog getting a bar mitzvah if you will, to make me realize, like oh, this is a great moment to celebrate that. It's just not something as again, as a revenue, as an ops, marketing leader, there almost just needs to be I don't know if it's a calendar invite or something, but it needs to be at the top of our mind. Because I think, especially in the past couple of years, CMOs have been on the hook more and more and more to be tied to revenue. And sharing DEI is something really hard to tie to revenue and yet, if we don't our brand is going to our brand and reputation will suffer. And that is tied to revenue. So sort of just really realizing that, yes, it is hard to track, harder to tie, but according to our data, and we've been doing this for 20 years. This is what's impacting people's perceptions. Are they willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in a crisis? Will they recommend you to a friend? Would they sort of welcome you to the neighborhood, all things that we measure, and if you don't share this out, they're not going to do these things which will absolutely impact your bottom line? So really realizing that more of the warm fuzzies, yes, it's hard to tie to revenue directly but if you don't, you will absolutely see it in your revenue.

[27:48] Lexi Taylor Wan:   

I got to hit you with the data Ali. We know that it's tied to revenue. And when you look at our ESG scores, we know that a high ESG score results in a 60% willingness to buy and a low ESG score results in a 20% willingness to buy. So not communicating those efforts is literally costing you money. Girl, you didn't even read my report. Not on my watch. 

[28:13] Brandi Starr:   

I was going to say that was like a perfect [inaudible 28:16]

[28:17] Ali Jawin:  

It worked. 

[28:20] Brandi Starr:

But that number is astounding. I mean, that's a 40% difference. And if we just take that one number, and just look at our overall like pipeline, and say if we've got 60% of these people who are willing to say yes, what does that close one look like versus 20%. And you're right, like that is a direct line to revenue. So I think the key takeaway I have there for those that are fighting for space, whether it's mental space resources, budget, to really focus on some of these ESG efforts, like that number, that the willingness to buy changes by 40%. That is your justification right there that this is got to be top of mind.

[29:17] Ali Jawin:

And that's our data right now. And as we see ESG getting more and more important, that's only going to grow. Like in six months, that could be even larger, in a year. ESG does not look like a fad, I mean, tread with your environment, not getting, you know, as long as we're having environmental problems ESG is going to be very top of mind. 

[29:36] Lexi Taylor Wan:   

Absolutely. It's an absolute shared expectation. And I just got to come in with more data, because it's too juicy to not share. 51% of the global public believe it's essential for corporations to provide both actions and words in response to cultural issues. And we know what that in a smaller RepTrak study that we did, 90% of companies studied saw that their ESG efforts did not match the public's perception of their ESG efforts. So they're expecting you to do it, and they're not seeing what you're doing. So it's so important to lead with ESG these days. And we know that global scores were down this year, so just so in a fluster I guess. 

[30:12] Brandi Starr:  

So I would say talking about our challenges is just the first step. And nothing changes, if nothing changes. So you got to do the work. And in traditional therapy, the therapist gives the client some homework, but at Revenue Rehab, we'd like to flip that on its head because when you know better, you do better. And so what I want to hear and Ali I'll let you take the summary, are the key takeaways and actions for our listeners. Because we have proved here -- like to me without a shadow of a doubt that reputation matters. And a key component of that is ESG, and focusing on the needs of GenZ. So can you summarize your takeaways. And I always like to give our audience the one thing, give one click key step that they can do in order to move the needle and to better manage brand reputation.

[31:11] Ali Jawin:  

So take note to summarize, overall, you have a reputation, whether you manage it and measure it or not, the public has a perception of you. And yes, you can't control all of it. There's the news media, whatnot, but you have a huge amount of control over that. And what we're seeing is that people want you to communicate. They want you to communicate what you're doing in DEI, what you're doing in ESG, they want to know that, and if they don't, they're going to fill in the gaps. And those gaps are probably going to be very, very unflattering. And I'd say the one key takeaway, I feel like a lot of marketers want to wait until they've cracked the code. They don't want to share the small initiatives. But you know with DEI we're not solving that overnight. Arguably, does it ever get solved? I would argue it could always get better. ESG these are large, complex problems. Don't wait to have cracked the code before you share anything. Celebrate the small wins. If you're a big company and you start composting, that's a win. It's not huge. And again, I wouldn't say like, hey, we were composting, we're done. But acknowledging that, acknowledging that, hey, this is complicated, we're working on it. In the meantime, here's what we're doing. And it's okay to share that something didn't succeed. But just by communicating what you're doing, that you're taking it seriously, that's when your reputation can really measure to what you're living. Just don't be afraid to communicate the small things. We all know it's hard. That's okay.

[32:53] Brandi Starr:

So I would say that key takeaway to summarize is, reach out, have a conversation with your social media manager, figure out something that you are doing today or something that's in the works, that you can talk about publicly. Find that one thing as a start to really get the ball rolling and making sure that the beautiful things wonderful things that you are doing internally, are being communicated and are positively influencing your reputation. Ali and Lexi, I have enjoyed our discussion, but that is our time for today. Thank you so much for joining me.

[33:36] Ali Jawin:  

Thank you for having us.

[33:39] Brandi Starr:

Well, if I appreciate it, and thank you to everyone for joining us. I hope you have enjoyed our conversation with Ali and Lexi and I encourage you to download the 2022 Global RepTrak 100, the report is the definitive ranking of corporate reputation for the world's leading companies. And the link to that report with the various stats that Lexi has shared is listed in the show notes so that you can download it. I can't believe we are already at the end. Thank you, everyone for joining us this week and see you next time.

34:16 [Outro]:

You've been listening to revenue rehab with your host Brandi Starr. Your session is now over, but the learning has just begun. Join our mailing list and catch up on all our shows at revenue rehab dot live. We're also on Twitter and Instagram at Revenue Rehab. This concludes this week's session. We'll see you next week.